Which Issues Do GAs Consider Unimportant?

15 comments

1. I think it’s a little bit unfair to suggest that they just don’t care about these issues. I suspect that at least many of the Q15 are deeply concerned about LGBTQ+ issues. Elder Renlund’s talk was a direct response to their attempts to be aware of what conversations are occurring among women in the Church. But caring doesn’t necessarily mean having answers, especially if they are looking for answers to new questions in old places. I suspect they don’t talk about these issues much because they don’t have any answers, whereas they do feel confident in their answers about more innocuous gospel topics (or hobbies). Nobody likes to spend a lot of time saying “I don’t really have any good answers and these questions are far outside of my experience and deeply uncomfortable for me.”

   I can think of LOTS of approaches to these issues that I think would help them find answers, or at least ask the right questions. I think that the central church administration makes policy choices that insulate them from people who might pose the uncomfortable questions directly and help them understand–I can critique all of those choices. But I think the explanation is more complicated than just that they don’t care.

2. That’s fair, Kristine. Certainly they seem at least somewhat aware of some of these issues, and I can get that maybe they just don’t feel like they have good answers. But in the end, I think the dismissive effect might be the same. By never addressing them, they’re communicating that these issues aren’t all that important.

   I’m just listening to the At Last She Said It hosts being interviewed on the Marriage on a Tightrope podcast. They’ve mentioned how they get tons and tons of messages from women who are distressed about their Church experience, and how they’re dismissed and ignored and they have literally nobody to bring it up with or literally even talk to about it, so they write to these women running this podcast. It’s awful that a church with so many resources (not to mention so much money) can’t be bothered to even listen to women who are suffering from the inequality they’re facing at church.

3. Don’t remember who gave the talk — some then-recently widowed apostle a few years ago — addressing single adults. He kept telling us that he understood us, that we were lonely … so looonely, so very, very loooooooooooooonely. I realized then, if I hadn’t known before, that despite their goodness, leaders are like the rest of us, and can really only comprehend others’ struggles by imagining that others’ struggles are like their own. I mean, yeah, okay, it can sometimes be lonely, but that’s far from the most difficult aspect of being a single adult, and hardly something I dwell on more than once every few years. I was not at all comforted by his supposition that I was so very, very loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonely.

   Pair that with an exchange I have between John A. Widtsoe — a man I dearly love — and a young widow shortly after World War II. She explained the difficulty of dating LDS men whose interest in her ceased immediately upon learning that she had been sealed to her first husband. She wanted to go dancing occasionally, and asked about starting what might be considered a Single Adult Special Interest group. Widtsoe’s response was one of puzzlement. The Church already provided a full range of social activities, all anyone could possibly want, so there was no need to arrange dancing parties for a few widows.

   So with these and other examples I’ve noticed, I do think that the lack of attention to the needs of members outside of the stereotypical “good Mormon family” stems more from a lack of imagination than of a lack of interest. I do wish there were some way of sparking that imagination that wouldn’t be immediately shut down as the sass of disrespectful, demanding nobodies, but I don’t know what that way would be.

4. That’s really too bad, Ardis. I know I’ve seen you and others observe that the GAs are probably especially likely to have married young, and so to have an experience of singleness that’s just dramatically different from anyone who’s single in the Church today past say the age of 25 or so.

5. This is human nature. We don’t care if it doesn’t effect us. When people say “why do bad things happen,” I want to say, “because we don’t give a damn about anyone else until it happens to us.” All the more reason we need a leadership that comes from many different perspectives. The 12 and the vast majority of “lower level” GA’s are all white, married, socially upwardly mobile men so no, many of my problems and questions as a never married woman of relatively limited means, are going to concern them.

6. It’s true that our GAs lack diversity, but in addition to pointing out they are all white, cisgender, married, Utah-based, wealthy and upper-class recipients of nepotism in the ranks of the church, I think it’s important to say that they all live charmed the lives. None could has risen to those ranks without meteoric talent and years of escalating successes. They are all intelligent alpha males whose entire existence is completely alien to the mediocre class. World-class flying aces (or executives), university presidents, cardiac surgeons on the cusp of transplantation science, top defense firm attorneys, etc. are gifted with privilege, aptitude and opportunity beyond my wildest dreams. Their lives are literally charmed- with charisma, intelligence, perfect timing, open doors, and family/collegial support. They tell you it’s because they are more righteous, but I think it might simply be privilege and perhaps divine support/preparation for a nearly impossible role. I do know that they rarely experience events that would decay self esteem or confidence. It’s like they constantly drink the “Felix felicitis” potion all their lives.

   Buddhism teaches us that even the rich suffer, and that is true, to a point. But, the crushing experiences of minorities, the socially disadvantaged, the poor, the less privileged, less educated, less talented or aptitude blessed, chronically sick, the mediocre, etc. are worlds apart from the alpha males who have risen as our leading Pharisees. And suffering is something that can’t be learned vicariously. They have no clue what it is like down here, not can they relate (despite what the 14 points of Prophecy say.) .

   While we applaud and praise them for legitimizing our persecuted and scoffed religion with their worldly accolades and professional supremacy, this hierarchy of privilege creates “isms” and classes amongst us, and sadly- divides the pastors and penitents. That’s lamentable. I miss President Kimball, who was a much simpler man and suffered from countless health ailments. He was relatable. I miss President Hinckley, who emerged as a reliable company man and not the “alpha”. I miss the idea of a plow boy prophet, who just went by “brother Joseph” and met immigrants on the dock ’instead of “President first name-middle initial-last name” behind a mahogany desk with said name etched in a gold Garamond font nameplate. I feel this way not because I’m anti-intellectual, or scorn the preparation someone can bring to this work, but I’m anti- Nicomachesn ethics, anti “ten percent”. And from everything I read about the historical Jesus and the people/causes he championed, I don’t think he was Aristotelian either.

   I don’t know how to take a “buck up, keep to the covenant path” talk from someone who earned a cardiac surgeon’s salary, who has perfect pitch, who had 10 children while rising to the top of medicine and the tippity top of the church, who picked up Mandarin as a side hobby because- we’ll, what else does one do with a photographic memory. I don’t know how to take a “sisters, you are beautiful on the inside because of the spirit” talk from someone who has had tens of thousands of dollars of plastic surgery, dyed hair, corporate make-up, and is wearing a Nordstroms’s suit dress with a Gucci scarf. I don’t know how to take “persevere”’talks from someone who despite being twice as old as I am, has not persevered a fraction of the adversity, discrimination, rejection, failure, or general life bludgeonings that I have. (I know that sounds prideful, but I’m being factual. And there are people who would shame me with the amount of strife they have experienced.) It’s just exhausting. Maybe they should stick to the financial reports and let us read the scriptures on our own, I’m not sure I need that type of intermediary to relate to Jesus.

7. What Mortimer said. Wow that was well-stated. Yes, the leaders live charmed lives and it really puts blinders on them.

   Ziff – thank you for acknowledging that the Brethren avoid talking about women who are queer. It’s all about gay men, or LGBT without any other specifics. What about lesbians? Asexuals? Straight women with low sex drives?

   Or women who might not like sex due to sexual trauma? Every time one of the Brethren says “sacred procreative process” I want to stand up and yell, “did you know a woman can be impregnated during the worst trauma of her life? Did you know that rape isn’t sacred even if it’s procreative? Do you CARE?” Imagine if the Brethren spent the same amount of time talking about consent and the terrible sin of sexual assault as they do talking about the sacred procreative process and the terrible sin of abortion. Sexual assault gets prosecuted at an abysmally low percentage, but that’s not an issue the Brethren care about so much as they fear women’s bodily autonomy.

8. I was thinking about this post and thought about another issue the GAs don’t talk about, but that is addressed all the time in the Old and New Testaments. Treating the poor fairly. There are numerous scriptures about “grinding the faces of the poor” and “oppressing the hireling in his wages” and so forth. The Church could speak out a lot more than it does about the need for fair wages. Economic issues have a large impact on stable families. Tying health insurance to employment also hurts the Church’s ideal family. My friend’s husband is self-employed and can earn enough money to pay their bills, but because of my friend’s health problems, she needs the type of health insurance you only get from working for a big company. She has to work full-time, even though she would prefer to stay home with the children.

   Wages are so low that parents might need to work two jobs to make ends meet, taking away from time with children or time with a spouse. Imagine how much more stable families would be if one wage-earner could earn enough to pay the bills, and the entire family had affordable health coverage.

   The biggest threat to the family nowadays is economic. I wish the Brethren would spend more time talking about the need to pay a fair wage, and not withhold health care. Jesus wasn’t checking to be sure people were working full-time before he healed them.

9. Lily, yes! This definitely seems like a people-in-general problem, making the solution, as you note, to have a more diverse crop of GAs.

   Mortimer, that’s such a great point about how becoming a GA means that you’ve been lucky enough to have a great career in something, so by virtue of this selection rule, they have a skewed view of the world, for example, in the degree to which hard work in general is rewarded.

   Janey, thanks for your sad and excellent points. I wasn’t even thinking of sexual trauma, but I think you’re spot on that that’s an issue that’s just light years away from being something GAs are concerned with. And I love your points about the GAs not being concerned with ways that poverty could be alleviated. It’s really sad that they’re in general so unwilling to talk about ways that people’s lives could be made better on the ground with different government policies. They by and large seem to believe, thanks to the selection effect Mortimer outlines so well, that all people need is to be told to pull harder on their bootstraps.

10. I would love to see a blog post about Mortimer’s thoughts.

11. I agree with everything Mortimer said. I’m also with Lily in that we need to see a blog post elaborating more in depth on his comments and the thoughts he shared. I also agree with Janey in how the church general authorities need to do better addressing economic issues so many members are facing today. It’s ludicrous to me how the church with its billions can’t do **something ** to alleviate the problem, especially when they pushed for people to marry young, not delay having children, and pushed the stay-at-home mother agenda onto its members… all of which have caused long-term problems and lack of financial stability for so many church members.

    The church has lost its accessibility, identity, and personality to corporatism. The church is no longer a hospital for the sick, a refuge for the downtrodden, a safe haven from the outside, or the gathering place for everyone to enjoy and come together in worship (church services), celebration (ward and stake parties/activities and wedding receptions), mourning (funeral services), recreation (Primary and YM/YW activities, single adult FHE), and learning (seminary and institute). Over the years, the church has turned into a museum for the uber-rich, a fashion show for the wealthy pioneer corridor social media influencers, a slick PR campaign intent on making sure the world sees the church and its members as “normal”, and a bully pulpit for the well-off and out-of-touch baby boomer general authorities to lecture the everyday, salt-of-the-earth people who are barely staying afloat much of the time.

    I wish church meetings and general conference sessions did more to celebrate men and women of all ages, all races, all economic backgrounds, and all levels of education and work experience. We need more young people, more single people, more people of color, and more people who’ve worked blue-collar jobs and who truly understand poverty and lower-class living leading the church today and doing more to help **the least of these**.

    I’m so tired of the general authorities giving a pass to the wealthy pioneer corridor social media influencers who rub their good fortune and money in everyone’s faces, to the baby boomers who refuse to look inside themselves and change, to those living in the pioneer corridor who’ve been coddled and indulged by the same general authorities for God knows how long, to the mean girls/mean guys who create and enable cliques and division in their own wards and stakes (single and married alike), to the extremists like DezNat who are on a power trip and determined to oppress minorities, women, those who are LGBTQ+, and who don’t fit the Aryan definition of “beautiful”, and to the people who knowingly break the commandments and go against their temple covenants.

    It’s so exhausting seeing the people who are doing their best to live as the Savior did, who fulfill and magnify their callings, who reach out to the outsiders and those on the fringes in their ward and stakes, who exhaust themselves serving those on both sides of the veil, who honor their temple covenants, and keep the commandments **always** being the ones who are lectured by the general authorities. Many of these people are barely hanging by a thread to keep their testimonies intact. Something’s got to give, and if the general authorities don’t change, and if the church doesn’t change, then it will lose the backbone of the church/the members they need the most: the very same people they keep lecturing. Those church members are going to get sick of being talked down to at some point and will leave. When the church and the general authorities have no one left but those who drove out the backbone of the church and then go on to eat their own, the church and general authorities will have no one but themselves to blame.

12. Related to the Church’s strong over-emphasis on financial and economic prosperity and the way it caters to the middle and upper-middle classes, two points:
    1) in Ghana, Africa criticisms of the Church have included a) the church was indoctrinating members to accept poverty and oppression instead of finding solutions within political and economic spheres; and b) the affluence of the Church as shown by missionaries driving cars and its “grand, prestigious” meetinghouses and temples, in contrast to smaller structures built by other groups such as 7th-Day Adventists. The Adventists also operate clinics and schools. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_in_Ghana and https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=58004010&itype=CMSID) I have heard anecdotally of native African missionaries serving with Americans who ended up stealing money and otherwise breaking the law so they could maintain an “American” lifestyle once their missions were over.
    2) in the NE United States where I live, meetinghouses are routinely constructed in middle-class and upper-middle-class white neighborhoods that are inaccessible to those without reliable vehicles or who rely on public transportation, most of whom are poor and/or minorities. My parents’ ward moved their Sunday meeting times back an hour because so many members with cars were routinely making two or three trips every week, chauffeuring people to and from Church. This, of course, could be remedied (as our family has discussed at length) if the Church would use some of its vast wealth to purchase vans and hire individuals (and/or train missionaries) to drive and maintain them, instead of demanding that members (who in my parents’ ward are often medical students who aren’t that wealthy either) use their own vehicles, gas and time. My ward called a “transportation coordinator” and there was much debate as to whether members needing rides should be responsible for contacting him by Saturday evening, or if assigned ward members should just show up on Sunday morning assuming people were ready to go (and more often than not they weren’t, so spending time and money for no reason). When our easily-accessible meetinghouse in Ohio was sold (just after being renovated!–talk about an utter lack of inspiration) and we were assigned to a stake center 30 minutes away, I routinely gave rides to the 2-3 people who could fit in our small car (along with my daughter’s car seat). At one point I suggested that we purchase a larger vehicle and my inactive husband said, “I’m not paying for a bigger car so that you transport more people to church!”
    3) In addition, many temples are also built in affluent, white suburbs and then named after the nearest large city, which may be miles away and require huge sacrifices of time and money (including for public transportation, when available) from many (see Washington D.C., Boston, and Hartford for starters). I’ve often thought that if the Church really wants people on low incomes to attend the temple, they should hand out transportation vouchers. And food vouchers, now they’ve closed all the cafeterias and seem to want everyone to fast (of course, small temples like Hartford never had cafeterias. I was stunned at Bednar’s recent comment that “there are no small temples”–see https://news-gu.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/apostle-dedicates-yigo-guam-temple While I understand his meaning as far as available ordinances, small temples are and always have been hugely different from big ones! Like clothing rental… is that still even available?) When we were in the Boston Temple District (3 hours away in each direction) our stake Relief Society, for RS trips, provided meal vouchers for each sister at the temple cafeteria–decent, convenient, reasonably-priced food–and often arranged for a member of the Temple presidency to speak during lunch. When we attended for a general stake trip, eating was a wonderful time to socialize with members we might rarely see in our geographically large stake (or even, serendipitously, from elsewhere!). People would leave home at 6 a.m., spend the entire day at the temple with a lunch break and then have dinner before leaving to drive home between 6-7 p.m. Not everyone can or should fast due to health and age! Now we’re in the Hartford Temple District, which is still 3 hours away in each direction, and the RS pre-orders meals from a restaurant like Subway or Panera and assigns someone to pick them up. (I hope temples at least provide refrigerators/freezers, microwaves, vending machines, and eating areas for those who bring their own food or need a snack–does anyone know?)
    Sorry for the length of this post–I’m venting! I really wish members had legitimate ways to bring up these issues directly with GAs!

13. JC,
    Moroni prophesied about the exact corruption you lament, the corruption of *all* churches *including* the holy church of God that will befall us in the last days (Mormon 8:35-41). I don’t know how long the oppression of the poor and this pride cycle will be allowed to ripen, but the “rest of the story” is there to read as well.

    But, alas the brethren are muffling the BoM and focusing almost exclusively on the New Testament these days. And they rarely if ever warn of materialism. As a matter of fact, if I have to hear “money is not evil, it’s how you use it” talk from the GAs or another prosperity gospel talk I’m going to scream. I don’t know why the BoM is being shelved these days- if it’s b/c of the historicity problems buzzing on the internet, or if SL is simply trying to blend into mainstream Christianity. (I recently attended the D.C. Temple open house and found only two BoM paintings in the entire building. One was of Jesus with two Central American children (hanging in a staircase) and the other was Minerva Techart’s Jesus with the multitudes- which with its Impressionism- wasn’t particularly identifiable as being a scene from the BoM. Dozens of New Testament paintings hung on every wall. Only two BoM paintings. Completely intentional- extremely strategic.

    Apologies for being a broken record about this, I’ve said it before and will likely squeak up in the future, but Brigham used to say that the saints (who were persecuted refugees fleeing the country for their lives) could endure anything except wealth and materialism. Yet here we are today- swimming in prosperity (especially in the jello-belt and among the pioneer elite). Yet we don’t need a statistical analysis of conference talks (sorry Ziff) to know that warnings about this ripening materialism/pride cycle and oppression of the poor (in Moroni’s parlance) are nonexistent. Who is going to read harsh admonitions against expensively adorned churches during a temple-building spree? Or decry costly raiment in a Nordstrom’s suit?

    I’d like the church to advocate for the poor, to champion working wages, women’s wage equality, maternity leave, breastfeeding accommodations, immigration reform, FMLA expansions, universal healthcare, childcare, and other family-friendly solutions that you, Janet and Ziff have mentioned. Alas, SL actually remains silent or works against such political positions, favoring instead harsh bootstraping and survivalist capitalism. (Let’s be honest, the church consistently leans into Republican politics via its lobbyists, amicus briefs, alignment with organizations and initiatives, endorsements, etc.)

    I personally find Bernie and Elizabeth Warren’s advocacy for the poor, middle-class and families to be more in-line with the priorities espoused in the BOM and our core beliefs than SL’s agenda. Agree or disagree with their solutions, at least they bring a concern and passion for supporting the lower classes and stopping the widening wealth disparities. The rights of the church, “religious liberty”, have long been SL’s first priority. So, protecting the institution (that seems to have expanding power, money, and influence) is more important than the health and welfare of the poor, of women and children?

    I fear we definitely deserve Moroni’s warning and rebuke.

14. Mortimer,

    I didn’t think it was a coincidence that Come, Follow Me for 2020 was studying The Book of Mormon. So much of what happened in 2020 aligned with what took place in The Book of Mormon when it came to corruption in and outside church walls; and even with a global pandemic in full force, it didn’t stop the pioneer elite from flaunting how unaffected they were, or how minimal the fallout was for them. Remember the fiasco that happened at the SLC Airport when the missionaries came home? The sense of entitlement and selfishness in the pioneer corridor knows no bounds. It seems in 2022 that church members are due for another extensive study with Moroni’s prophecy in full force.

    It’s ironic how the general authorities are trying to downplay/shelve The Book of Mormon and its teachings when they used to claim it was “the keystone of our religion.” Perhaps they know all too well that **they’re** amongst those Moroni was warning about and can’t admit it to themselves. I imagine it would be very hard for the general authorities to take a long, hard look at themselves, and commit to change and improvement, when they’re too busy rebuking the widow whilst turning a blind eye to Taylor Frankie Paul and her ilk.

    This blog post went viral a few years ago for warning against the flaunting of wealth, materialism, and pride that has befallen the pioneer corridor. It is still relevant today and needs to be talked about again:

    https://mike-thayer.com/lifestyle-porn/

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