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	<title>Comments for Zelophehad's Daughters</title>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by Rebecca J</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71788</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 07:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71788</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;this whole love thing is just a giant crap shoot&lt;/i&gt;

I had almost this exact same thought the other day about friendship. You can be friendly, you can go out and meet people and talk to them and listen to them and even serve them, but real friendship is something that you fall into. You find someone who just *gets* you and you get them, and you become devoted to each other without much difficulty at all. It just happens. You can&#039;t make it happen. These kinds of close relationships, where people are truly invested in each other, are rare and precious. They really are miracles.

Emily U&#039;s comment about being unworthy recipients and rain falling on the just and unjust is spot on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>this whole love thing is just a giant crap shoot</i></p>
<p>I had almost this exact same thought the other day about friendship. You can be friendly, you can go out and meet people and talk to them and listen to them and even serve them, but real friendship is something that you fall into. You find someone who just *gets* you and you get them, and you become devoted to each other without much difficulty at all. It just happens. You can&#8217;t make it happen. These kinds of close relationships, where people are truly invested in each other, are rare and precious. They really are miracles.</p>
<p>Emily U&#8217;s comment about being unworthy recipients and rain falling on the just and unjust is spot on.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tenebrae by Natsy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/06/tenebrae/#comment-71785</link>
		<dc:creator>Natsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 05:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=6888#comment-71785</guid>
		<description>Loved this! As I read I kept thinking &quot;I wish this girl was my friend, in my ward, right now!&quot; I have slowly been making my way to the inactive side of things and that disappoints me. My problem was I kept believing that Church was ALL or nothing. As I&#039;ve been reading around the bloggernacle and finding views similar to my own, I&#039;ve realized that&#039;s not the case at all. Just yesterday I had this enlightened moment where I realized I was ready to try Church again, and try it on my own terms. I got the same excitement you described, I&#039;m ready to find God again and reaffirm my faith. It was a very liberating feeling. 
.
Thanks for sharing your feelings on the matter. It was a reaffirmation of my own. I love the Church Community, it has many positive aspects and I&#039;m glad I was raised with that, it&#039;s a part of who I am. But, there is more to life than just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loved this! As I read I kept thinking &#8220;I wish this girl was my friend, in my ward, right now!&#8221; I have slowly been making my way to the inactive side of things and that disappoints me. My problem was I kept believing that Church was ALL or nothing. As I&#8217;ve been reading around the bloggernacle and finding views similar to my own, I&#8217;ve realized that&#8217;s not the case at all. Just yesterday I had this enlightened moment where I realized I was ready to try Church again, and try it on my own terms. I got the same excitement you described, I&#8217;m ready to find God again and reaffirm my faith. It was a very liberating feeling.<br />
.<br />
Thanks for sharing your feelings on the matter. It was a reaffirmation of my own. I love the Church Community, it has many positive aspects and I&#8217;m glad I was raised with that, it&#8217;s a part of who I am. But, there is more to life than just that.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by Natsy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71784</link>
		<dc:creator>Natsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 04:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71784</guid>
		<description>I remember in YW my leaders going on and on about choosing a &quot;good boy,&quot; someone who honored their priesthood and could provide for a family. They made it sound like when I was older I would have lines of boys to choose from and that I only needed to pick the best one and I would be eternally happy.
.
Well, at 27, still single and rarely dating, I would say that the well-meaning YW leaders were a little off the mark.
.
This is a tricky subject for me. I&#039;ve had my highs and lows with being single in the Church. Sometimes I thank heaven that I&#039;m still only in charge of me and not chasing a million babies around or trying to get by on pittance. Other times I plead for love and someone to share my life with, someone I can lean on. 
.
I agree with you that marriage is not a matter of &quot;working harder.&quot; I would use a different word than &quot;luck&quot; though, I would say it&#039;s a miracle. I honestly think every true, good marriage is a miracle, because I don&#039;t see any other way it could happen. I do try to put myself out there and I do ask people on dates and I have tons of guy &quot;friends.&quot; I just can&#039;t seem to find anyone to move into the next stage with. I have to believe that God is in charge of that part of my life. It gives me hope. 
.
I loved how you said that you were strong independent women, but you were still girls searching for love. That&#039;s what I feel like. I KNOW I can do this alone, I just don&#039;t want too. I want someone to share life&#039;s ups and downs with. (And the thought of a lifetime of celibacy is horrific.) I will be finishing my master&#039;s this year and plan on starting my PhD next year. I know where I&#039;m headed in life and I hope by some miracle or luck I will meet someone that wants to join me. 
.
Melygoch- haha! I laughed out loud at the &quot;lest we forget single adult is actually an oxymoron.&quot; So true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember in YW my leaders going on and on about choosing a &#8220;good boy,&#8221; someone who honored their priesthood and could provide for a family. They made it sound like when I was older I would have lines of boys to choose from and that I only needed to pick the best one and I would be eternally happy.<br />
.<br />
Well, at 27, still single and rarely dating, I would say that the well-meaning YW leaders were a little off the mark.<br />
.<br />
This is a tricky subject for me. I&#8217;ve had my highs and lows with being single in the Church. Sometimes I thank heaven that I&#8217;m still only in charge of me and not chasing a million babies around or trying to get by on pittance. Other times I plead for love and someone to share my life with, someone I can lean on.<br />
.<br />
I agree with you that marriage is not a matter of &#8220;working harder.&#8221; I would use a different word than &#8220;luck&#8221; though, I would say it&#8217;s a miracle. I honestly think every true, good marriage is a miracle, because I don&#8217;t see any other way it could happen. I do try to put myself out there and I do ask people on dates and I have tons of guy &#8220;friends.&#8221; I just can&#8217;t seem to find anyone to move into the next stage with. I have to believe that God is in charge of that part of my life. It gives me hope.<br />
.<br />
I loved how you said that you were strong independent women, but you were still girls searching for love. That&#8217;s what I feel like. I KNOW I can do this alone, I just don&#8217;t want too. I want someone to share life&#8217;s ups and downs with. (And the thought of a lifetime of celibacy is horrific.) I will be finishing my master&#8217;s this year and plan on starting my PhD next year. I know where I&#8217;m headed in life and I hope by some miracle or luck I will meet someone that wants to join me.<br />
.<br />
Melygoch- haha! I laughed out loud at the &#8220;lest we forget single adult is actually an oxymoron.&#8221; So true.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by Call</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71782</link>
		<dc:creator>Call</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 20:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71782</guid>
		<description>Totally understand the BYU panic.  The &quot;aging out&quot; of the singles ward is a different kind of panic.  Both exist.  No doubt there. 

I think this is a little bit of a matter of semantics.  You are lucky to have found yourself a husband.  Yes.  And kudos to you!  I&#039;m so happy for you to have gotten &quot;lucky&quot;!  

I&#039;m a user of the word lucky.  But I think it&#039;s important to note this &quot;luck&quot; is in fact a blessing.  I would bet you would call your husband something good in your life.  Well we know all good things come from God.  So really we just call it a blessing too.  That doesn&#039;t have to mean you &quot;worked&quot; hard in the righteous arena to get that blessing.  People who aren&#039;t &quot;righteous&quot; get married all the time.  

But let&#039;s be honest, sometimes working hard in the righteous arena does in fact translate to blessings.  If you keep my commandments you will prosper in the land.  Same thing, different language.  It&#039;s just important to remember that you can&#039;t tie a blessing to a certain &quot;righteous&quot; act.  But I know 100% that if I try to live a more righteous life I will be blessed.  It just may not be in the way I expected.  It&#039;s very possible that I study my butt off in school (yep again) and in the scriptures (you know, for the righteous aspect) but still totally fail the test.  But I know for a fact a blessing will have come soBlessings come in all shapes and forms.  

I also don&#039;t think calling your marriage a blessing needs to take away from the idea that you won the roulette game. ...which is often how dating can feel - Is this guy going to be a winner or make me lose all my sanity.  
 
And I don&#039;t think the fact that you have a marriage and that it can be called a blessing needs to lessen any of the blessings I&#039;ve received as a single woman.  

But also, thanks for not wearing an &quot;I&#039;m engaged and you&#039;re not&quot; shirt in church.  That is super thoughtful.  But please still celebrate.  We&#039;re still happy for you!   Like Rachel from Friends I&#039;m 90% happy and 10% not....well more like 80 and 20!   :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally understand the BYU panic.  The &#8220;aging out&#8221; of the singles ward is a different kind of panic.  Both exist.  No doubt there. </p>
<p>I think this is a little bit of a matter of semantics.  You are lucky to have found yourself a husband.  Yes.  And kudos to you!  I&#8217;m so happy for you to have gotten &#8220;lucky&#8221;!  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a user of the word lucky.  But I think it&#8217;s important to note this &#8220;luck&#8221; is in fact a blessing.  I would bet you would call your husband something good in your life.  Well we know all good things come from God.  So really we just call it a blessing too.  That doesn&#8217;t have to mean you &#8220;worked&#8221; hard in the righteous arena to get that blessing.  People who aren&#8217;t &#8220;righteous&#8221; get married all the time.  </p>
<p>But let&#8217;s be honest, sometimes working hard in the righteous arena does in fact translate to blessings.  If you keep my commandments you will prosper in the land.  Same thing, different language.  It&#8217;s just important to remember that you can&#8217;t tie a blessing to a certain &#8220;righteous&#8221; act.  But I know 100% that if I try to live a more righteous life I will be blessed.  It just may not be in the way I expected.  It&#8217;s very possible that I study my butt off in school (yep again) and in the scriptures (you know, for the righteous aspect) but still totally fail the test.  But I know for a fact a blessing will have come soBlessings come in all shapes and forms.  </p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t think calling your marriage a blessing needs to take away from the idea that you won the roulette game. &#8230;which is often how dating can feel &#8211; Is this guy going to be a winner or make me lose all my sanity.  </p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think the fact that you have a marriage and that it can be called a blessing needs to lessen any of the blessings I&#8217;ve received as a single woman.  </p>
<p>But also, thanks for not wearing an &#8220;I&#8217;m engaged and you&#8217;re not&#8221; shirt in church.  That is super thoughtful.  But please still celebrate.  We&#8217;re still happy for you!   Like Rachel from Friends I&#8217;m 90% happy and 10% not&#8230;.well more like 80 and 20!   <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by J Town</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71781</link>
		<dc:creator>J Town</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 19:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71781</guid>
		<description>Miri,

I&#039;m an avid tennis player and I would contend that your tennis comparison is entirely about choice.  You choose to hit the ball at a certain angle and with a certain degree of force.  This, admittedly along with other factors, such as how tightly wound the net is, weather conditions, etc, will determine how the ball lands and if it falls on your side of the net or on the other.  It&#039;s not luck.  

Now, I&#039;m not stating that all of the choices are under your control (who wound the net? who scheduled the match? what spin did your opponent put on the ball?).  But that&#039;s life.  You make choices and deal with the consequences, intended or otherwise.  You won&#039;t always get your desired result, though.  Everything that happens has a cause, whether or not we are aware of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Miri,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an avid tennis player and I would contend that your tennis comparison is entirely about choice.  You choose to hit the ball at a certain angle and with a certain degree of force.  This, admittedly along with other factors, such as how tightly wound the net is, weather conditions, etc, will determine how the ball lands and if it falls on your side of the net or on the other.  It&#8217;s not luck.  </p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m not stating that all of the choices are under your control (who wound the net? who scheduled the match? what spin did your opponent put on the ball?).  But that&#8217;s life.  You make choices and deal with the consequences, intended or otherwise.  You won&#8217;t always get your desired result, though.  Everything that happens has a cause, whether or not we are aware of it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by Melyngoch</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71762</link>
		<dc:creator>Melyngoch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 23:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71762</guid>
		<description>Apame, this is such a great post. One of the great frustrations of being thirty and single is exactly what you&#039;ve articulated here -- that no matter how determined I am to get married, how hard I try, how much I want it, however many athlete clichés I deploy, I can&#039;t just make it happen. And while I want to be happy for friends who have fared better in their love lives, and certainly not deny them the right to believe that God has intervened to get them married, it&#039;s still frustrating trying to understand what makes them so special -- why, if God&#039;s in the business of arranging happy marriages, he hasn&#039;t arranged one for me.

Up until about a year ago, we had a counselor in our YSA branch presidency who was convinced that most of us in the branch were single because we secretly didn&#039;t want to get married, we were proud of having held out. He would stand up in Sunday School and call us all to repentance for not having strong enough testimonies of marriage, not trying hard enough to get married, not being humble enough to get married, etc. etc.; and then he&#039;d promise us that God had someone special picked out for each of us. Maybe God does; I don&#039;t know, but I do know that listening to this tripe -- from someone who&#039;d gotten married less than a year off his mission and had never had to really live as a single adult in the church -- was helpful to no one. It was clear that he believed he&#039;d succeeded in getting married -- and that was definitely, in his ledger, a success -- because of his own righteousness and industriousness; thus we must all be single because of our poor choices. (Also, he was a year younger than me, and insisted on calling us all &quot;kids,&quot; lest we forget that &quot;single adult&quot; is actually an oxymoron in the church.)

Yvonne, I&#039;m happy to take what you say even further; I think that if women want to date, they should ask guys on dates -- there&#039;s no reason to leave all the work to the men.  But that&#039;s not really what this is about, is it? It&#039;s not just about my being willing to put myself out there and ask guys out and flirt and whatever -- it&#039;s about whether there&#039;s anyone I can put myself out there &lt;em&gt; for&lt;/em&gt;; whether the happenstance or providence of my life puts people in my way that I can date or marry. So much depends on things I have no control over, long before my personal interactions with guys even enters the picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apame, this is such a great post. One of the great frustrations of being thirty and single is exactly what you&#8217;ve articulated here &#8212; that no matter how determined I am to get married, how hard I try, how much I want it, however many athlete clichés I deploy, I can&#8217;t just make it happen. And while I want to be happy for friends who have fared better in their love lives, and certainly not deny them the right to believe that God has intervened to get them married, it&#8217;s still frustrating trying to understand what makes them so special &#8212; why, if God&#8217;s in the business of arranging happy marriages, he hasn&#8217;t arranged one for me.</p>
<p>Up until about a year ago, we had a counselor in our YSA branch presidency who was convinced that most of us in the branch were single because we secretly didn&#8217;t want to get married, we were proud of having held out. He would stand up in Sunday School and call us all to repentance for not having strong enough testimonies of marriage, not trying hard enough to get married, not being humble enough to get married, etc. etc.; and then he&#8217;d promise us that God had someone special picked out for each of us. Maybe God does; I don&#8217;t know, but I do know that listening to this tripe &#8212; from someone who&#8217;d gotten married less than a year off his mission and had never had to really live as a single adult in the church &#8212; was helpful to no one. It was clear that he believed he&#8217;d succeeded in getting married &#8212; and that was definitely, in his ledger, a success &#8212; because of his own righteousness and industriousness; thus we must all be single because of our poor choices. (Also, he was a year younger than me, and insisted on calling us all &#8220;kids,&#8221; lest we forget that &#8220;single adult&#8221; is actually an oxymoron in the church.)</p>
<p>Yvonne, I&#8217;m happy to take what you say even further; I think that if women want to date, they should ask guys on dates &#8212; there&#8217;s no reason to leave all the work to the men.  But that&#8217;s not really what this is about, is it? It&#8217;s not just about my being willing to put myself out there and ask guys out and flirt and whatever &#8212; it&#8217;s about whether there&#8217;s anyone I can put myself out there <em> for</em>; whether the happenstance or providence of my life puts people in my way that I can date or marry. So much depends on things I have no control over, long before my personal interactions with guys even enters the picture.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by YvonneS</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71761</link>
		<dc:creator>YvonneS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 21:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71761</guid>
		<description>If I had met someone at 25 who proposed marriage I would not have known how to act or what to say. All I had was a romantic fantasy. I learned eventually that luck is involved in relationships in general and dating and marriage specifically.

But, being tongue tied and too shy to speak does not help. There might not be one thing a person can to do make things happen, but there are things women do to let men know they are interested an available. It can&#039;t hurt to practice doing them and help lady luck out a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I had met someone at 25 who proposed marriage I would not have known how to act or what to say. All I had was a romantic fantasy. I learned eventually that luck is involved in relationships in general and dating and marriage specifically.</p>
<p>But, being tongue tied and too shy to speak does not help. There might not be one thing a person can to do make things happen, but there are things women do to let men know they are interested an available. It can&#8217;t hurt to practice doing them and help lady luck out a bit.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by Main Street Plaza &#187; Sunday in Outer Blogness: The Spirit of Contention Edition!!!</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71753</link>
		<dc:creator>Main Street Plaza &#187; Sunday in Outer Blogness: The Spirit of Contention Edition!!!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 11:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71753</guid>
		<description>[...] sister missionaries. Coincidentally, Apame also recounted the horrors of the Mormon marriage market from the perspective of someone who bought into it, and eventually won the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sister missionaries. Coincidentally, Apame also recounted the horrors of the Mormon marriage market from the perspective of someone who bought into it, and eventually won the [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by Miri</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71745</link>
		<dc:creator>Miri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2012 19:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71745</guid>
		<description>Have any of you seen Match Point? The voiceover narrative in that movie talks about luck, about how people never want to believe in it because that would mean acknowledging that there are things in this life that you just cannot control. J Town, I believe in choice too, but I don&#039;t think that has anything to do with the question of luck. You can be an amazing tennis player or a crappy one, but if your ball hits the net, your choices and your ability have nothing to do with which side the ball comes down on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have any of you seen Match Point? The voiceover narrative in that movie talks about luck, about how people never want to believe in it because that would mean acknowledging that there are things in this life that you just cannot control. J Town, I believe in choice too, but I don&#8217;t think that has anything to do with the question of luck. You can be an amazing tennis player or a crappy one, but if your ball hits the net, your choices and your ability have nothing to do with which side the ball comes down on.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Luck by Ziff</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2012/05/17/luck/#comment-71726</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 21:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=7224#comment-71726</guid>
		<description>Wow, Emily U, I love your comment! Spot on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Emily U, I love your comment! Spot on!</p>
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