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	<title>Comments on: Through the Looking Glass: The Worth of Men</title>
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	<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/</link>
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		<title>By: Stella</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58416</link>
		<dc:creator>Stella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58416</guid>
		<description>Goodness, I was going to write about this over at the exponent, but I think you said what I was going to say. So, well done!

you and I think a lot alike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Goodness, I was going to write about this over at the exponent, but I think you said what I was going to say. So, well done!</p>
<p>you and I think a lot alike.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58364</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 23:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58364</guid>
		<description>Last shall be first, greatest among you is your servant.  The best leaders are those who intimately understand their subjects.  There is no better way to understand your subjects than to be one for awhile.  There is no shame in being a subject or a servant when the point of it is revealed.

  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread.. thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee... in the celestial sphere there will be no sweat to eat bread, nor will there be any husbands ruling over their wives.  Both of these curses will be removed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last shall be first, greatest among you is your servant.  The best leaders are those who intimately understand their subjects.  There is no better way to understand your subjects than to be one for awhile.  There is no shame in being a subject or a servant when the point of it is revealed.</p>
<p>  In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread.. thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee&#8230; in the celestial sphere there will be no sweat to eat bread, nor will there be any husbands ruling over their wives.  Both of these curses will be removed.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58360</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 03:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58360</guid>
		<description>Taking the risk of commenting on this conversation without actually having read / heard the original talk at BYU, I&#039;d like to add my own perspective. 

I find stereotyping to be hard to swallow whether directed toward women or men.  There seems to be an implied assumption that both men and women are both so carnal as to require an institutional role to redeem them. Men are said to &quot;need&quot; the priesthood and its attendant responsibilities to make up for our selfish natures whereas women &quot;need&quot; motherhood to give them a redeeming role in the society of men.  I disagree with both assertions.  

I think there has to be a way to acknowledge that gender is an essential characteristic of individual identity and purpose while recognizing that we are all children of Heavenly Parents (a Father and a Mother) with a divine nature and destiny.  

I think its important to remember, while supporting the central place of the family in the Creator&#039;s plan for the eternal destiny of his children, that the most important family we belong to is the one in which we are all offspring of Diety.  That is the only family relationship that remains constant regardless of upbringing, marital status, social standing, the number of or lack of children that we have, the faithfulness of our spouse, parents or children.

I don&#039;t pretend to know the mysteries of the roles our Heavenly Parents employ in the eternities. But I think it&#039;s fairly safe to project statements from The Family proclamation to them. 

I believe that our Heavenly Parents &quot;love and care for each other and for their children ... rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live.&quot; 

I believe that our Heavenly Parents are married and &quot; honor marital vows with complete fidelity&quot; and that our heavenly family is &quot;established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities.&quot;

I believe that our Heavenly Father preside[s] over [our family] in love and righteousness and [is] responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for [His family]. 

I believe that our Heavenly Mother is &quot;primarily responsible for the nurture of their children.&quot; 

I believe that in these sacred responsibilities our Heavenly Parents &quot;help one another as equal partners&quot; and that extended family members may lend support when needed. 

I believe that Divine beings are unique in their character despite being one in purpose and glory, which leaves open the possibility of individual adaptation in marital and family relationships in the eternities as they do here in this life.  

I think that we tend to overly simplify the character of our Heavenly Parents just as it&#039;s easy to artificially simplify and distinguish the characters of our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ by assigning stern justice to the Father and loving mercy to the Son.  I believe these Beings we worship are much more complicated than that, but that sorting all of this out is going to take a lot more prayer and study and fasting.  

It&#039;s helpful to me to see myself as a child of God first, a disciple of Christ and a member of His Church second, and a husband and father third and fourth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taking the risk of commenting on this conversation without actually having read / heard the original talk at BYU, I&#8217;d like to add my own perspective. </p>
<p>I find stereotyping to be hard to swallow whether directed toward women or men.  There seems to be an implied assumption that both men and women are both so carnal as to require an institutional role to redeem them. Men are said to &#8220;need&#8221; the priesthood and its attendant responsibilities to make up for our selfish natures whereas women &#8220;need&#8221; motherhood to give them a redeeming role in the society of men.  I disagree with both assertions.  </p>
<p>I think there has to be a way to acknowledge that gender is an essential characteristic of individual identity and purpose while recognizing that we are all children of Heavenly Parents (a Father and a Mother) with a divine nature and destiny.  </p>
<p>I think its important to remember, while supporting the central place of the family in the Creator&#8217;s plan for the eternal destiny of his children, that the most important family we belong to is the one in which we are all offspring of Diety.  That is the only family relationship that remains constant regardless of upbringing, marital status, social standing, the number of or lack of children that we have, the faithfulness of our spouse, parents or children.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t pretend to know the mysteries of the roles our Heavenly Parents employ in the eternities. But I think it&#8217;s fairly safe to project statements from The Family proclamation to them. </p>
<p>I believe that our Heavenly Parents &#8220;love and care for each other and for their children &#8230; rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live.&#8221; </p>
<p>I believe that our Heavenly Parents are married and &#8221; honor marital vows with complete fidelity&#8221; and that our heavenly family is &#8220;established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities.&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe that our Heavenly Father preside[s] over [our family] in love and righteousness and [is] responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for [His family]. </p>
<p>I believe that our Heavenly Mother is &#8220;primarily responsible for the nurture of their children.&#8221; </p>
<p>I believe that in these sacred responsibilities our Heavenly Parents &#8220;help one another as equal partners&#8221; and that extended family members may lend support when needed. </p>
<p>I believe that Divine beings are unique in their character despite being one in purpose and glory, which leaves open the possibility of individual adaptation in marital and family relationships in the eternities as they do here in this life.  </p>
<p>I think that we tend to overly simplify the character of our Heavenly Parents just as it&#8217;s easy to artificially simplify and distinguish the characters of our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ by assigning stern justice to the Father and loving mercy to the Son.  I believe these Beings we worship are much more complicated than that, but that sorting all of this out is going to take a lot more prayer and study and fasting.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s helpful to me to see myself as a child of God first, a disciple of Christ and a member of His Church second, and a husband and father third and fourth.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58357</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58357</guid>
		<description>I missed a lascivious link?  Rats!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I missed a lascivious link?  Rats!</p>
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		<title>By: Sterling Fluharty</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58356</link>
		<dc:creator>Sterling Fluharty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58356</guid>
		<description>Thanks also for expunging the lascivious link</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks also for expunging the lascivious link</p>
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		<title>By: The Bouncer</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58354</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bouncer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 17:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58354</guid>
		<description>Dear friends,

We welcome comments which disagree with our positions. However, we won&#039;t tolerate insults or name-calling (see our comment policy). As long as you feel able to restrain yourself from calling your interlocutors &quot;stupid&quot; or &quot;scum,&quot; please feel free to contribute your thoughtful critiques.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear friends,</p>
<p>We welcome comments which disagree with our positions. However, we won&#8217;t tolerate insults or name-calling (see our comment policy). As long as you feel able to restrain yourself from calling your interlocutors &#8220;stupid&#8221; or &#8220;scum,&#8221; please feel free to contribute your thoughtful critiques.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Brown</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58321</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58321</guid>
		<description>So true, so true.  Are we not all fathers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So true, so true.  Are we not all fathers?</p>
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		<title>By: daddy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58320</link>
		<dc:creator>daddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 21:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58320</guid>
		<description>Mark, before you get too discouraged about your eternal role, I hope you&#039;ll remember what Elder Sheldon Don&#039;t said about the blessings which arise from the fact that all men are fathers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, before you get too discouraged about your eternal role, I hope you&#8217;ll remember what Elder Sheldon Don&#8217;t said about the blessings which arise from the fact that all men are fathers.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Brown</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58317</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58317</guid>
		<description>Doc and Jack,

Sounds like you men are kind of grumpy and in need of an extra strong dose of purification.  Maybe you could try to work your masculine wiles on a woman who is extra-spiritual and who possesses purification superpowers and convince her to marry you.  Or maybe you want to wait until the next life when we men will be assigned to righteous women as rewards for their righteousness.  Then we will have the privilege of being brother-husbands.  If that idea kind of makes you sick, well, welcome to the club.

Good point, Lynnette.  Heck will freeze over before we hear a talk praising men for their spirituality and telling them how they should sanctify and purify women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc and Jack,</p>
<p>Sounds like you men are kind of grumpy and in need of an extra strong dose of purification.  Maybe you could try to work your masculine wiles on a woman who is extra-spiritual and who possesses purification superpowers and convince her to marry you.  Or maybe you want to wait until the next life when we men will be assigned to righteous women as rewards for their righteousness.  Then we will have the privilege of being brother-husbands.  If that idea kind of makes you sick, well, welcome to the club.</p>
<p>Good point, Lynnette.  Heck will freeze over before we hear a talk praising men for their spirituality and telling them how they should sanctify and purify women.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynnette</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2010/03/10/through-the-looking-glass-the-worth-of-men/#comment-58316</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=3928#comment-58316</guid>
		<description>I did listen to the talk. And I actually found the DU summary to be a pretty good representation of what was said. It isn&#039;t about men and women sanctifying each other--it&#039;s about women sanctifying men, and that dynamic as part of an eternal marriage. I&#039;m looking back through my notes, and I see a lot about how  marriage is required for spiritual development, and only couples can be exalted--but nothing about reciprocal responsibilities. The talk is primarily about the role and divine nature of women, and how those things benefit men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did listen to the talk. And I actually found the DU summary to be a pretty good representation of what was said. It isn&#8217;t about men and women sanctifying each other&#8211;it&#8217;s about women sanctifying men, and that dynamic as part of an eternal marriage. I&#8217;m looking back through my notes, and I see a lot about how  marriage is required for spiritual development, and only couples can be exalted&#8211;but nothing about reciprocal responsibilities. The talk is primarily about the role and divine nature of women, and how those things benefit men.</p>
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