Comments on: Masculinity Under Siege

By: Lynnette

Lynnette — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 18:12:44 +0000

Hi m&m. I think I can see what you’re saying, but that leads me to wonder–what about a woman who is naturally “feminine” in her interests and talents? It seems like in such a situation, it might be helpful for her growth and development to develop more “masculine” attributes as well. It would make more sense to me to encourage women and men alike to seek to expand their capacities, rather than to prescribe particular gender norms

By: m&m

m&m — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 05:30:23 +0000

If we believe in some kind of gender essentialism, some natural gender differences, surely they’ll emerge regardless;

I’m not 100% sure that talking about gender being eternal and essential is the same thing as saying that it’s intrinsic. I think choices do come into play. If choice didn’t come into play, I would see not nearly as much value in talking about it all. At least that has been true in my life. I’m more naturally ‘male’ in a large portion of my interests, talents, and abilities. The guidance about gender roles has made a big difference in my growth and development.

By: Clark

Clark — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:05:03 +0000

That’s such a male thing to say Geoff. But the real question is whether you would feel your masculinity was threatened if a woman said it.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 21:24:26 +0000

Derek,

I don’t think aggression or competitiveness are negative aspects of masculinity. I think they are some of the best parts of maleness.

By: Derek

Derek — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:53:21 +0000

Keen observations, Lynnette. One does not need to go far in the cultural discussion to know that many feel masculinity is under siege, and I think that you are absolutely correct, the admonitions in the Church on femininity are really a reflection of that. And I think it is absolutely true that there is very little tolerance culturally for men who do not fit the rather narrowly prescribed gender expectations. Personally, I’m very much in favor of breaking down those barriers. While the definition of masculinity within the Church is more positive than elsewhere, I think that the positive aspects associated with masculinity are just as applicable and valid for women, and our culture is still too tolerant of the negative aspects of stereotypical masculinity (aggression, competitiveness).

By: Ms. Jack Meyers

Ms. Jack Meyers — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:29:06 +0000

There’s also shoveling the church sidewalk, opening jars and killing spiders. Far be it from me to infringe on those traditional masculine roles.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:44:47 +0000

Lynnette: If the girls start to act like boys, in other words, what will be left for the boys?

Well there is always butt kicking. Males have historically (and genetically) been better at that than females.

By: z

Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:09:25 +0000

Whatever the difference between men and women is, it better be something important enough to justify the church’s obsession with gender. They’re probably having a hard time thinking of something that a) seems significant enough and b) won’t make people mad.

By: Lynnette

Lynnette — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:06:56 +0000

Like Rebecca J (#3), I’ve also wondered “how a large number of men manage to become decent, contributing members of society without personally having rigid conceptions about gender roles.” I also have some questions about the idea that men won’t be involved in their families without the lure of the presiding carrot; if that’s the case, I don’t know what to make of the many men I know who somehow still manage to be involved in their families even without getting to be the presider.

By: Lynnette

Lynnette — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:46:44 +0000

BrianJ, thanks for your perspective on the balance required of men, as far as not being too manly or too womanly; that’s a good point. I agree that the range of acceptable behavior seems much narrower for men. That’s one way in which I think women really do have it better; I suspect that narrow conceptions of gender are at least as harmful to boys as to girls.

I’ve been fascinated as well by the way in which male names get feminized–which notably doesn’t happen in other direction. Jack, I’m probably also part of the problem, since for about ten years I went by the nickname “Fred.”

JNS said,

One way of reading all this is that our society treats what’s coded as masculine as value-neutral but what’s coded as feminine as inherently a bit degrading. It would be neat if the church could work to change that, presumably by encouraging males to regard traditional femininity as non-contaminating.

Now there’s a good place to bring in our much-beloved framework of the church vs. the world.