Comments on: Halloween and Ritual Boundary Crossing

By: Ziff

Ziff — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:21:02 +0000

I really like this post, Kiskilili. I particularly like this point you made:

Especially in a community committed to stringent regulations on dress and public appearances, perhaps a cordoned-off environment in which those boundaries can be ritually loosened provides a healthy safety valve, a space in which alternative personalities and Jungian shadow sides can safely be explored.

So other than dressing up as devils for Halloween and making jokes about drinking, do Mormons have any other ways of doing this? I tend to agree with you that this chance to let off steam around the boundaries probably actually strengthens them. I was just thinking that we have so many boundaries that maybe we would have less actual crossing if we had more such chances to ritually cross. I don’t know–I’m just thinking out loud about this.

By: catania

catania — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 15:01:57 +0000

Very interesting post. I always knew about the no-mask rule; however, I didn’t know the others. (And I’ve even lived in Utah!).

This year, my 8-year old daughter dressed up as Alex Trebek. Last year it was Elvis, and the year before – Abraham Lincoln. We never felt any kind of negative feedback – even though she was technically cross-dressing. Mostly, people laughed (which is exactly what she was going for).

anyways – I’m not sure what to make of this…;) but I’m glad that she didn’t get in trouble!

By: Stephen M (Ethesis)

Stephen M (Ethesis) — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 13:37:12 +0000

On the whole, I find Halloween charming and benign.

I’d have to agree. What is fun is to see the H1B visa holder’s kids on Halloween, really enjoying the immersion in local culture.

The joke sub-thread has been interesting, Too bad no Lady Godiva costumes, at least none before the (non)wearers were arrested.

The heavy prohibition against masks goes back to when they were legislated against nationwide as part of the backlash against the KKK and similar groups. It remains with us, though fading, as the KKK and its memories fade.

By: Sam B.

Sam B. — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:18:13 +0000

I don’t want to derail this with a discussion of jokes about alcohol because, frankly, I love Halloween and any discussion of it. I’ll just say that the type of alcohol humor, I believe, has a lot to do with the relative age and availability of alcohol. Back when I was a summer associate at a large law firm in New York (back when the legal world was highly-functioning, financially), the summers joked almost nonstop about getting drunk. Not because it was forbidden–because it was encouraged by firm associates and paid for by the firm.

That’s not to deny the potential for transgressive joking about alcohol. But, depending on the situation, it’s not always joking about what is forbidden–sometimes it’s joking about what is specifically permitted and encouraged. (Ditto with comments about getting wasted on Facebook from high school friends–most of them I’ve not seen in 10 or 15 years, so I don’t have a way to judge whether they’re verbally transgressing boundaries they wouldn’t cross in real life or not, but I assume that, at least for some of them, when they joke about getting plastered that night, they really will get plastered.)

By: Katya

Katya — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:31:49 +0000

>9.

I hear a number of jokes about alcohol in my no-Mo workplace, but they’re still jokes whose humor stems from boundary-crossing. (I.e., having a drink at work or in the middle of a job interview.)

By: moksha

moksha — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 00:18:02 +0000

I have a dear friend who is a cross dresser. He dresses up like a woman on a regular basis; not just for Halloween or other ’special’ occasions. It has been fascinating learning from him about his experiences. In his mind, the societal opinion of cross-dressers is far worse and lower than just about anything someone could subscribe to. He feels that people who are open to any number of disenfranchised or marginalized groups, are still largely judgmental of and prejudiced against cross dressing. And while he feels berated on a consistent basis– even by members of other disenfranchised groups– he feels ultimately so compelled to do what he does that he says he wouldn’t be true to himself if he did not. He equates it with a heterosexual person (or whatever) trying to change who they are to be a homosexual or vice versa. Out of sheer interest in the idea of the transgendered and fluidity of gender and sexuality, I have paid more attention these past couple of years, to friends, colleagues and others who have dressed up as the opposite gender be it for Halloween or otherwise.

Uh threadjack I guess. Thanks for the interesting post!

By: Ben

Ben — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:39:53 +0000

Hey, drop me an email about this post?
Thanks!

By: Kiskilili

Kiskilili — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:00:56 +0000

Fascinating, Orwell–that hadn’t even occurred to me! Trick-or-treating really is outside our cultural norms; many of us barely even recognize the people who live downstairs from us or across the street. If nothing else, Halloween spurs us to interact with each other, which I think is great. And I find declawed “Fall Festivals” silly; it’s a pagan holiday–let’s unleash our inner pagans.

I totally believe it of missionaries, Eve. Someone should do a study of Mormon humor.

I’m glad they gave the rebellious soul in the mask candy anyway, Vada.

So true, Reese! I also grew up thinking evil godless nonmembers wanted to shove drugs down my throat. The irony is that we make evil much scarier by refusing to explore it in safe ways. And maybe that’s the point, to be so in awe (not in a positive sense) of Satan that we wouldn’t dare dress as a ghoul–as in The Name of the Rose, in which religious figures have concluded effectively that the fear of the devil is necessary to our fear of God. In a roundabout way, maybe Mormon Halloweens are the scariest of all?

By: Reese Dixon

Reese Dixon — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 06:06:16 +0000

My dad once told me that the no mask thing came from the days when someone would come in a mask to tar and feather brother Joseph and then show up to church the next day.

But he was prone to pulling things out of thin air, so who knows. It does seem to fit our collective long memory for grievances, though.

I wish we were more open to exploring those shadow sides. I was just talking to CWC yesterday about how I’m still trying to shake off the consequences of growing up being told how big and scary “the world” was. Part of me was afraid of making friends with non-members because I was certain that the day would come when they’d be shoving drugs down my throat. I was a shade ridiculous as a teenager.

I think having some safe ways to explore boundaries and fears would have made me feel less polarized about finding good and evil in the world.

By: Vada

Vada — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:41:29 +0000

Great post, Kiskilili!

As a side note: our ward specifically prohibited masks at the Trunk-or-Treat, but said nothing about devil costumes or cross-dressing. Maybe they just figured no one would. Also, I don’t think anyone said anything to the teenager who showed up on stilts and with a mask on — from what I could see, he was given candy just like everyone else. I’m not really sure why the church has a thing against masks; I’ve never understood it. I’ve never been in a ward where they told us not to wear masks anywhere else, though — just not to the church activity.