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	<title>Comments on: A Bloggernacle Bestiary</title>
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		<title>By: jessawhy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51194</link>
		<dc:creator>jessawhy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51194</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Or I could be a Dolphin because I have a big nose.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Awesome. I&#039;d go with that one, too.

K,
&lt;blockquote&gt;There are two kinds of members in the Church: those who object to patriarchy, and those who object to those who object to patriarchy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Better than a post, make that your blog subheader :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Or I could be a Dolphin because I have a big nose.</p></blockquote>
<p>Awesome. I&#8217;d go with that one, too.</p>
<p>K,</p>
<blockquote><p>There are two kinds of members in the Church: those who object to patriarchy, and those who object to those who object to patriarchy.</p></blockquote>
<p>Better than a post, make that your blog subheader <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51193</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51193</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m a unicorn. I&#039;m an equality guy, one of my best friends is a patriarchy guy, and we happily co-exist. 

&quot;My Horn can pierce the Sky!&quot;

But maybe I&#039;m a Lemur because I don&#039;t think God is in favor of the patriarchy that&#039;s in the world, and I don&#039;t think the priesthood = men above women. 

Of course I could be an Ocelot, because I am against certain things in the church like Men making decisions without their wives input and concent, but then maybe that&#039;s more Lemurish, as I find those things to be in the church, but not of the church.

Or I could be a Dolphin because I have a big nose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;m a unicorn. I&#8217;m an equality guy, one of my best friends is a patriarchy guy, and we happily co-exist. </p>
<p>&#8220;My Horn can pierce the Sky!&#8221;</p>
<p>But maybe I&#8217;m a Lemur because I don&#8217;t think God is in favor of the patriarchy that&#8217;s in the world, and I don&#8217;t think the priesthood = men above women. </p>
<p>Of course I could be an Ocelot, because I am against certain things in the church like Men making decisions without their wives input and concent, but then maybe that&#8217;s more Lemurish, as I find those things to be in the church, but not of the church.</p>
<p>Or I could be a Dolphin because I have a big nose.</p>
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		<title>By: Kiskilili</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51189</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiskilili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51189</guid>
		<description>Hey Jessawhy--maybe an even better post would treat the following issue: 

There are two kinds of members in the Church: those who object to patriarchy, and those who object to those who object to patriarchy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jessawhy&#8211;maybe an even better post would treat the following issue: </p>
<p>There are two kinds of members in the Church: those who object to patriarchy, and those who object to those who object to patriarchy.</p>
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		<title>By: Kiskilili</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51187</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiskilili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51187</guid>
		<description>SilverRain, I think we&#039;re going to have to agree to disagree on whether humility requires us to defer conscience entirely. I&#039;m uncomfortable with any theodicy that absolves us of moral reasoning under the premise that God&#039;s justice will be enacted in the life to come (or is being carried out in the here and now in some inscrutable way, as Calvinism would have us believe). I like to think religion at its best calls us to relieve oppression and rectify injustices &lt;em&gt;in this life&lt;/em&gt; to the degree we&#039;re able, that asks us to question the legitimacy of slavers rather than slaver before them, that, rather than allowing all injustices in the name of God&#039;s holy inscrutability, calls us to action against them. Like obedience, submission itself is not an inherently moral act.

I certainly don&#039;t remember The Plan in its entirety; undoubtedly there are things that would make more sense if I did. But I don&#039;t think that need prevent me from critiquing its particular implementation in my life or the lives of those I know, in the same way that I don&#039;t think we should accept slavery&#039;s rightness simply because the Bible does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SilverRain, I think we&#8217;re going to have to agree to disagree on whether humility requires us to defer conscience entirely. I&#8217;m uncomfortable with any theodicy that absolves us of moral reasoning under the premise that God&#8217;s justice will be enacted in the life to come (or is being carried out in the here and now in some inscrutable way, as Calvinism would have us believe). I like to think religion at its best calls us to relieve oppression and rectify injustices <em>in this life</em> to the degree we&#8217;re able, that asks us to question the legitimacy of slavers rather than slaver before them, that, rather than allowing all injustices in the name of God&#8217;s holy inscrutability, calls us to action against them. Like obedience, submission itself is not an inherently moral act.</p>
<p>I certainly don&#8217;t remember The Plan in its entirety; undoubtedly there are things that would make more sense if I did. But I don&#8217;t think that need prevent me from critiquing its particular implementation in my life or the lives of those I know, in the same way that I don&#8217;t think we should accept slavery&#8217;s rightness simply because the Bible does.</p>
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		<title>By: SilverRain</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51175</link>
		<dc:creator>SilverRain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 14:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51175</guid>
		<description>Steve&#8212;Perhaps not temporally, but certainly spiritually. Godhood itself is a self-checking power.

Starfoxy&#8212;I don&#039;t believe it does matter, when talking about the Priesthood. Sure they continue to perform ordinances and fulfill callings, but only to their own condemnation. That has nothing to do with how &lt;i&gt;we&lt;/I&gt; react to priesthood power and authority. I think of it like taking the sacrament. We can&#039;t always know if someone is doing so unworthily, but it doesn&#039;t matter whether we know or not. Their unworthiness does not nullify the ordinance for others, it only condemns themselves. That is where faith comes in: being willing to do one&#039;s best in imperfect circumstances because one knows who one is and who God is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve&mdash;Perhaps not temporally, but certainly spiritually. Godhood itself is a self-checking power.</p>
<p>Starfoxy&mdash;I don&#8217;t believe it does matter, when talking about the Priesthood. Sure they continue to perform ordinances and fulfill callings, but only to their own condemnation. That has nothing to do with how <i>we</i> react to priesthood power and authority. I think of it like taking the sacrament. We can&#8217;t always know if someone is doing so unworthily, but it doesn&#8217;t matter whether we know or not. Their unworthiness does not nullify the ordinance for others, it only condemns themselves. That is where faith comes in: being willing to do one&#8217;s best in imperfect circumstances because one knows who one is and who God is.</p>
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		<title>By: Starfoxy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51161</link>
		<dc:creator>Starfoxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51161</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Priesthood is the authority by which men lead, and their priesthood is null if they don’t lead righteously.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Heaven may nullify a man&#039;s priesthood the second he is unrighteous, but humans just don&#039;t have that sort of response time. Unrighteous men continue to perform ordinances and fulfill their callings even when the power&#039;s of heaven have withdrawn from them. This matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Priesthood is the authority by which men lead, and their priesthood is null if they don’t lead righteously.</p></blockquote>
<p>Heaven may nullify a man&#8217;s priesthood the second he is unrighteous, but humans just don&#8217;t have that sort of response time. Unrighteous men continue to perform ordinances and fulfill their callings even when the power&#8217;s of heaven have withdrawn from them. This matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Evans</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51155</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51155</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s a self-checking power. &quot;

No such thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s a self-checking power. &#8221;</p>
<p>No such thing.</p>
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		<title>By: SilverRain</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51151</link>
		<dc:creator>SilverRain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51151</guid>
		<description>Honestly, I feel that the men are given the priesthood and put in charge so that they may learn how to lead righteously. Priesthood is the authority by which men lead, and their priesthood is null if they don&#039;t lead righteously. It&#039;s a self-checking power. 

Why women aren&#039;t given this to the same extent right now in this life is a moot question to me, because we simply don&#039;t remember enough of the Father&#039;s Plan to answer it. I suspect that once we do remember, much of this angst will seem silly unless we focus so much on it in this life it becomes part of our defining character. At that point, the tragedy will only be ours.

Perhaps this is why I probably fall into that &quot;unicorn&quot; category. I believe there is much more to my existence and my sphere than this life. Rather like magic, I think there is a great deal we simply don&#039;t understand, and I&#039;m willing to suffer the tide of Church society I am currently in, since I feel that God has placed me here in this life at this time. I don&#039;t want to worry too much about what was or what will be, only live in what &lt;I&gt;is&lt;/I&gt; and learn what I can from that. If that means I must learn to humble myself and accept leadership I don&#039;t always agree with or understand and which may in fact be wrong, than I will do my best to learn to be humble. If it means I have to learn to honor the leadership of imperfect people, than I will do so in the hopes that some day someone will give me the benefit of the doubt.

To me, this is the meaning of Christian discipleship. Christ may have reproved the Pharisees (the ones in authority) at times, but He also conformed to many of their traditions. He rarely seems to have derided their mistaken customs, but only to chide when they judged others for not following them. He also taught his followers to subject themselves to unrighteous dominion, to give even more than their slavers asked. I think there is a lesson in that that applies to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, I feel that the men are given the priesthood and put in charge so that they may learn how to lead righteously. Priesthood is the authority by which men lead, and their priesthood is null if they don&#8217;t lead righteously. It&#8217;s a self-checking power. </p>
<p>Why women aren&#8217;t given this to the same extent right now in this life is a moot question to me, because we simply don&#8217;t remember enough of the Father&#8217;s Plan to answer it. I suspect that once we do remember, much of this angst will seem silly unless we focus so much on it in this life it becomes part of our defining character. At that point, the tragedy will only be ours.</p>
<p>Perhaps this is why I probably fall into that &#8220;unicorn&#8221; category. I believe there is much more to my existence and my sphere than this life. Rather like magic, I think there is a great deal we simply don&#8217;t understand, and I&#8217;m willing to suffer the tide of Church society I am currently in, since I feel that God has placed me here in this life at this time. I don&#8217;t want to worry too much about what was or what will be, only live in what <i>is</i> and learn what I can from that. If that means I must learn to humble myself and accept leadership I don&#8217;t always agree with or understand and which may in fact be wrong, than I will do my best to learn to be humble. If it means I have to learn to honor the leadership of imperfect people, than I will do so in the hopes that some day someone will give me the benefit of the doubt.</p>
<p>To me, this is the meaning of Christian discipleship. Christ may have reproved the Pharisees (the ones in authority) at times, but He also conformed to many of their traditions. He rarely seems to have derided their mistaken customs, but only to chide when they judged others for not following them. He also taught his followers to subject themselves to unrighteous dominion, to give even more than their slavers asked. I think there is a lesson in that that applies to this.</p>
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		<title>By: jessawhy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51150</link>
		<dc:creator>jessawhy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51150</guid>
		<description>re Lynnette 19,
I can see why Kiskilili uses animals. By the end of the paragraph my head was spinning between 1a, 3, 2b, 4, and all the other options.
But, I think Ziff would really dig that explanation. He&#039;s pretty good with numbers. ;)

BTW, Kiskilili 
I loved this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I think there are really only two kinds of bloggers: those who read and comment on topics that interest them, and those who read and comment on topics they find tedious.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It seems good enough for it&#039;s own post . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re Lynnette 19,<br />
I can see why Kiskilili uses animals. By the end of the paragraph my head was spinning between 1a, 3, 2b, 4, and all the other options.<br />
But, I think Ziff would really dig that explanation. He&#8217;s pretty good with numbers. <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>BTW, Kiskilili<br />
I loved this:</p>
<blockquote><p>I think there are really only two kinds of bloggers: those who read and comment on topics that interest them, and those who read and comment on topics they find tedious.</p></blockquote>
<p>It seems good enough for it&#8217;s own post . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Doc</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2009/01/02/a-bloggernacle-bestiary/#comment-51141</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/?p=820#comment-51141</guid>
		<description>I used to fall into this Rameumptom&#039;s camp so I will give your question a shot.  I would envision a system in which women hold the power and men are figureheads and here is why.  Power corrupts.  If the individual in charge is the figurehead you have a setup for unrighteous dominion.  If you separate the two, perhaps there is less tendency for abuse by one side or the other.  If the church taught this explicitly it would blow the whole desired effect apart. 
   In the long run I don&#039;t think this is sustainable, and I am starting to think that in the end it may damage both parties more than it helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to fall into this Rameumptom&#8217;s camp so I will give your question a shot.  I would envision a system in which women hold the power and men are figureheads and here is why.  Power corrupts.  If the individual in charge is the figurehead you have a setup for unrighteous dominion.  If you separate the two, perhaps there is less tendency for abuse by one side or the other.  If the church taught this explicitly it would blow the whole desired effect apart.<br />
   In the long run I don&#8217;t think this is sustainable, and I am starting to think that in the end it may damage both parties more than it helps.</p>
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