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	<title>Comments on: Vaccinations: My Choice for My Children</title>
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	<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/</link>
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		<title>By: PallasAthena</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50152</link>
		<dc:creator>PallasAthena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 05:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50152</guid>
		<description>I appreciated your post.  

My wife and I decided against vaccination for both our boys after long and intense studies on the science and evidence behind the theory.  We are currently in the process of adopting a little girl and since she is a ward of the court, we have to follow the court-appointed pediatricians&#039; recommendations.  This has not been the best experience, but so far, she has had no severe reactions to any of the shots.  It is interesting how the pediatrician seems to always comment on how healthy our boys look, even commenting on their &quot;strong immune system&quot;.  May be not having vaccinated them has nothing to do with that, but the conversation is always a sore one when we talk about it with the pediatrician.

I stumbled across &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/846427.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this &lt;/a&gt;article tonight just a couple minutes before seeing your blog post, I thought I would put it up for all interested parties here to look over.  It talks about steps taken that will make vaccine manufactures immune from litigation if the vaccines harm anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciated your post.  </p>
<p>My wife and I decided against vaccination for both our boys after long and intense studies on the science and evidence behind the theory.  We are currently in the process of adopting a little girl and since she is a ward of the court, we have to follow the court-appointed pediatricians&#8217; recommendations.  This has not been the best experience, but so far, she has had no severe reactions to any of the shots.  It is interesting how the pediatrician seems to always comment on how healthy our boys look, even commenting on their &#8220;strong immune system&#8221;.  May be not having vaccinated them has nothing to do with that, but the conversation is always a sore one when we talk about it with the pediatrician.</p>
<p>I stumbled across <a href="http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/846427.html" rel="nofollow">this </a>article tonight just a couple minutes before seeing your blog post, I thought I would put it up for all interested parties here to look over.  It talks about steps taken that will make vaccine manufactures immune from litigation if the vaccines harm anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: r</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50144</link>
		<dc:creator>r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 21:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50144</guid>
		<description>This is a great discussion, and I think the heart of the issue is that of being engaged, informed, attentive parents. While community health is important, that&#039;s a difficult, nearly impossible argument to make to a parent caring for one, fragile or immuno-compromised child. And I love how sweetly you talk about taking care of your children&#039;s needs, Vada.

I did also want to bring up the fact that the US schedule is not &lt;em&gt;universally&lt;/em&gt; comparable to that of other first-world countries with similar disease-exposure probabilities. 

The fact that in the US, drug manufacturers contribute to the FDA/CDC recommended schedule is something I find deeply problematic. While the US has approximately 58-70 recommended/scheduled vaccines (for girls, including annual flu from 18 months, HPV and the disputed varicella vaccine - which means 55-67 for boys) in a child&#039;s lifetime before they are 18, other countries (Finland*) have as few as 8 for a child under 18 (*pentavalent/tetravalent doses, but still...).

So (free math) that&#039;s a possible 50-62 MORE vaccines in the US. I can&#039;t be the only parent for whom this seems...well, troubling. And excessive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great discussion, and I think the heart of the issue is that of being engaged, informed, attentive parents. While community health is important, that&#8217;s a difficult, nearly impossible argument to make to a parent caring for one, fragile or immuno-compromised child. And I love how sweetly you talk about taking care of your children&#8217;s needs, Vada.</p>
<p>I did also want to bring up the fact that the US schedule is not <em>universally</em> comparable to that of other first-world countries with similar disease-exposure probabilities. </p>
<p>The fact that in the US, drug manufacturers contribute to the FDA/CDC recommended schedule is something I find deeply problematic. While the US has approximately 58-70 recommended/scheduled vaccines (for girls, including annual flu from 18 months, HPV and the disputed varicella vaccine &#8211; which means 55-67 for boys) in a child&#8217;s lifetime before they are 18, other countries (Finland*) have as few as 8 for a child under 18 (*pentavalent/tetravalent doses, but still&#8230;).</p>
<p>So (free math) that&#8217;s a possible 50-62 MORE vaccines in the US. I can&#8217;t be the only parent for whom this seems&#8230;well, troubling. And excessive.</p>
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		<title>By: Vada</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50133</link>
		<dc:creator>Vada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 05:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50133</guid>
		<description>First, I want to thank everyone for being so civil.  I&#039;ve seen many vaccination conversations online, and this is the nicest I&#039;ve seen by far.

I think that it&#039;s best not to have a knee-jerk reaction to vaccinations one way or the other (really, that&#039;s true about most things).  Every parent should do the research and decide what&#039;s best for their children.  If other parents I talk to have a concern about vaccinations, I generally recommend following a delayed schedule (Dr. Sears has a good one).  I am definitely an advocate of giving only one shot at a time (and for only one disease at a time, as e suggested), and waiting a few weeks in between shots.  But this, too, is based on my own parental experience -- my kids react to so many things, so now try to only introduce one new thing at a time and observe them carefully, so I can know how that particular thing is affecting them.  If others feel comfortable with the current vaccination schedule, I certainly have no problem with them following it.

I feel the need to clarify my own practices, too.  While I am an advocate for delayed and spaced out vaccinations, that&#039;s not what I&#039;m currently doing.  I doubt my oldest will ever get another vaccination.  My second has had one round of a couple of vaccinations, but he has enough undiagnosed problems at this point that he won&#039;t be getting any vaccinations at least for the foreseeable future.  The youngest will not get any vaccinations until he is at least 2 -- we&#039;ll see how healthy he is at that point.  While I agree that herd immunity is a wonderful thing, I can&#039;t justify putting my children at what I believe is serious risk (for them) just so others will have slightly less risk.

Miles, thanks so much for your comment.  One of the arguments in the vaccination debates that makes me most upset is that we need our children to be vaccinated to keep from spreading the disease to all the adults whose vaccinations have probably worn off.  In my opinion, adult bodies are much more equipped to handle these diseases (even in their more inert forms), and anyone who doesn&#039;t want to catch them should go and update their own vaccinations rather than yelling about my children&#039;s vaccinations (or lack of them).  So thank you for being a responsible adult and doing what you can to protect the children around you (rather than the other way around).  I urge any healthy adult to do the same. (I do know the reason it&#039;s often the other way around is that vaccinations for children are free, and for adults, they aren&#039;t.  I think it&#039;s sad.)

Thanks again for a great conversation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I want to thank everyone for being so civil.  I&#8217;ve seen many vaccination conversations online, and this is the nicest I&#8217;ve seen by far.</p>
<p>I think that it&#8217;s best not to have a knee-jerk reaction to vaccinations one way or the other (really, that&#8217;s true about most things).  Every parent should do the research and decide what&#8217;s best for their children.  If other parents I talk to have a concern about vaccinations, I generally recommend following a delayed schedule (Dr. Sears has a good one).  I am definitely an advocate of giving only one shot at a time (and for only one disease at a time, as e suggested), and waiting a few weeks in between shots.  But this, too, is based on my own parental experience &#8212; my kids react to so many things, so now try to only introduce one new thing at a time and observe them carefully, so I can know how that particular thing is affecting them.  If others feel comfortable with the current vaccination schedule, I certainly have no problem with them following it.</p>
<p>I feel the need to clarify my own practices, too.  While I am an advocate for delayed and spaced out vaccinations, that&#8217;s not what I&#8217;m currently doing.  I doubt my oldest will ever get another vaccination.  My second has had one round of a couple of vaccinations, but he has enough undiagnosed problems at this point that he won&#8217;t be getting any vaccinations at least for the foreseeable future.  The youngest will not get any vaccinations until he is at least 2 &#8212; we&#8217;ll see how healthy he is at that point.  While I agree that herd immunity is a wonderful thing, I can&#8217;t justify putting my children at what I believe is serious risk (for them) just so others will have slightly less risk.</p>
<p>Miles, thanks so much for your comment.  One of the arguments in the vaccination debates that makes me most upset is that we need our children to be vaccinated to keep from spreading the disease to all the adults whose vaccinations have probably worn off.  In my opinion, adult bodies are much more equipped to handle these diseases (even in their more inert forms), and anyone who doesn&#8217;t want to catch them should go and update their own vaccinations rather than yelling about my children&#8217;s vaccinations (or lack of them).  So thank you for being a responsible adult and doing what you can to protect the children around you (rather than the other way around).  I urge any healthy adult to do the same. (I do know the reason it&#8217;s often the other way around is that vaccinations for children are free, and for adults, they aren&#8217;t.  I think it&#8217;s sad.)</p>
<p>Thanks again for a great conversation!</p>
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		<title>By: rleonard</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50115</link>
		<dc:creator>rleonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50115</guid>
		<description>I am of the view that with so many illegal immigrants in my state its somewhat (the degree of which I am not sure off) unsafe to allow your c hildren to un-vaccinated.  We have illegals all over our schools, playgrounds, and other public places.  Diseases that have been literally unheard of for many years in the US are now making a comeback due to high levels of illegal immigration from south of the border.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am of the view that with so many illegal immigrants in my state its somewhat (the degree of which I am not sure off) unsafe to allow your c hildren to un-vaccinated.  We have illegals all over our schools, playgrounds, and other public places.  Diseases that have been literally unheard of for many years in the US are now making a comeback due to high levels of illegal immigration from south of the border.</p>
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		<title>By: miles</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50114</link>
		<dc:creator>miles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50114</guid>
		<description>I believe in the communal health benefits of maintaining immunizations for children and adults. I also am glad my kids have been able to be immunized  without any negative side effects. I hope my choice for my children also benefits other children who can&#039;t have immunizations due to health problems or risks. I have issues with parents opting out for no reasons, but have no problems with parents who want to space out immunizations or go with one shot at a time. 
My doctor suggested my last tetanus shot be one with pertussis included due to adults often being the carrier and giving it to young children who are not yet immunized. My kids are old enough to be immunized, but I knew at church and in my neighborhood I would be around lots of infants and wanted to do my part to protect them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe in the communal health benefits of maintaining immunizations for children and adults. I also am glad my kids have been able to be immunized  without any negative side effects. I hope my choice for my children also benefits other children who can&#8217;t have immunizations due to health problems or risks. I have issues with parents opting out for no reasons, but have no problems with parents who want to space out immunizations or go with one shot at a time.<br />
My doctor suggested my last tetanus shot be one with pertussis included due to adults often being the carrier and giving it to young children who are not yet immunized. My kids are old enough to be immunized, but I knew at church and in my neighborhood I would be around lots of infants and wanted to do my part to protect them.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50098</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 07:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50098</guid>
		<description>I immunized my first child on schedule who then had severe side effects for several weeks.  I delayed immunizations for him and my second child, and diligently studied all that I could after that.   When he got his immunizations for his mission, he ended up in the hospital with the same kinds of side effects which lingered again for several weeks.  I decided that I didn&#039;t want to risk getting them for the last three children.  I felt that I was doing what was best for my children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I immunized my first child on schedule who then had severe side effects for several weeks.  I delayed immunizations for him and my second child, and diligently studied all that I could after that.   When he got his immunizations for his mission, he ended up in the hospital with the same kinds of side effects which lingered again for several weeks.  I decided that I didn&#8217;t want to risk getting them for the last three children.  I felt that I was doing what was best for my children.</p>
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		<title>By: cchrissyy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50096</link>
		<dc:creator>cchrissyy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 06:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50096</guid>
		<description>Vada,
Like you, my oldest child with his many issues changed not only what treatments are wise for him, but what is deemed too risky for his little siblings.  Vaccination decisions are one area where the ripples from his reactions and diagnoses are most measurably clear, and like you, I assume all parents are doing their best with the information they have for their individual children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vada,<br />
Like you, my oldest child with his many issues changed not only what treatments are wise for him, but what is deemed too risky for his little siblings.  Vaccination decisions are one area where the ripples from his reactions and diagnoses are most measurably clear, and like you, I assume all parents are doing their best with the information they have for their individual children.</p>
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		<title>By: e</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50095</link>
		<dc:creator>e</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 05:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50095</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a health care provider and I run into a lot of parents who are concerned about immunizations these days. In addition to delaying immunizations as Vada has chosen to do, I did want to let parents out there know that you can have the vaccines broken down into the individual components-- for example, you can get just the measles shot at a visit without the mumps and rubella added all at once. It is more expensive this way (more visits required) and not all clinics carry the separated vaccines, so it may take extra time and effort to find one that does. Anyway, just something to think about if you are worried about vaccinations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a health care provider and I run into a lot of parents who are concerned about immunizations these days. In addition to delaying immunizations as Vada has chosen to do, I did want to let parents out there know that you can have the vaccines broken down into the individual components&#8211; for example, you can get just the measles shot at a visit without the mumps and rubella added all at once. It is more expensive this way (more visits required) and not all clinics carry the separated vaccines, so it may take extra time and effort to find one that does. Anyway, just something to think about if you are worried about vaccinations.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50093</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 03:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50093</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;That’s what’s unethical–not participating in the risk, but reaping the benefits.&lt;/em&gt;
I see your point and agree that it would apply to some, but I’m not sure you can call everyone who opt-outs to avoid the risk unethical.  While there is an undeniable public health benefit associated with vaccination, the vaccine industry was unethical in its handling of the mercury containing preservative thimerosal leading to a credibility problem for vaccines in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>That’s what’s unethical–not participating in the risk, but reaping the benefits.</em><br />
I see your point and agree that it would apply to some, but I’m not sure you can call everyone who opt-outs to avoid the risk unethical.  While there is an undeniable public health benefit associated with vaccination, the vaccine industry was unethical in its handling of the mercury containing preservative thimerosal leading to a credibility problem for vaccines in general.</p>
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		<title>By: janeannechovy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50091</link>
		<dc:creator>janeannechovy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 01:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/10/18/vaccinations-my-choice-for-my-children/#comment-50091</guid>
		<description>I was the one who used the word &quot;unethical&quot; in my comment on Jana&#039;s piece, and ola senor pretty much gets to what I was aiming for.  I wasn&#039;t talking about those who delay and space out vaccinations (as you have said you are doing), but those who opt out of vaccinations altogether.  

I had a conversation with an opt-outer parent of a child in my oldest child&#039;s kindergarten class, and they had chosen not to vaccinate not for any particular health-related or religious reason, but just to avoid the general (really really small, for most children) risk of vaccinations.  She said they would get immunizations if they were going to travel to the developing world, but otherwise they would just rely on the herd immunity.  The parents interviewed in the recent Oregonian article said basically the same thing.  That&#039;s what&#039;s unethical--not participating in the risk, but reaping the benefits.  If you have reason to believe that the risk to your children is considerably greater than normal (immune-compromised, etc.), that changes the calculus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was the one who used the word &#8220;unethical&#8221; in my comment on Jana&#8217;s piece, and ola senor pretty much gets to what I was aiming for.  I wasn&#8217;t talking about those who delay and space out vaccinations (as you have said you are doing), but those who opt out of vaccinations altogether.  </p>
<p>I had a conversation with an opt-outer parent of a child in my oldest child&#8217;s kindergarten class, and they had chosen not to vaccinate not for any particular health-related or religious reason, but just to avoid the general (really really small, for most children) risk of vaccinations.  She said they would get immunizations if they were going to travel to the developing world, but otherwise they would just rely on the herd immunity.  The parents interviewed in the recent Oregonian article said basically the same thing.  That&#8217;s what&#8217;s unethical&#8211;not participating in the risk, but reaping the benefits.  If you have reason to believe that the risk to your children is considerably greater than normal (immune-compromised, etc.), that changes the calculus.</p>
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