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	<title>Comments on: Priesthood Attenuation</title>
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		<title>By: Bookmarks about Attenuation</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-50130</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookmarks about Attenuation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 04:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-50130</guid>
		<description>[...] - bookmarked by 6 members originally found by Iarwain on 2008-09-30  Priesthood Attenuation  http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/ - bookmarked by 1 members [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; bookmarked by 6 members originally found by Iarwain on 2008-09-30  Priesthood Attenuation  <a href="http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/" rel="nofollow">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/</a> &#8211; bookmarked by 1 members [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kiskilili</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-48525</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiskilili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 23:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-48525</guid>
		<description>Interesting, G! Certainly in my day there were no female seminary presidents! That&#039;s wild!

Stueben, I have to say that&#039;s an outrageous comment from sol&#039;s stake presidency! If sewing is part of my divine gender role, I think I&#039;m in for a rocky eternity--I have &lt;em&gt;never&lt;/em&gt; hated another class with the vehemence with which I detested eighth-grade sewing. 

Cynthia, I wonder though what prevents women from exercising the priesthood outside the temple or holding priesthood offices, if it is in fact doctrinal that women have the priesthood? Also, I&#039;m personally uncomfortable with the equation of the powers of mothers in Israel to priesthood power. To the degree that we value agency, mothers&#039; power is limited (by their children&#039;s agency). But perhaps we&#039;re approaching a conceptualization of priesthood power that is equally vacuous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, G! Certainly in my day there were no female seminary presidents! That&#8217;s wild!</p>
<p>Stueben, I have to say that&#8217;s an outrageous comment from sol&#8217;s stake presidency! If sewing is part of my divine gender role, I think I&#8217;m in for a rocky eternity&#8211;I have <em>never</em> hated another class with the vehemence with which I detested eighth-grade sewing. </p>
<p>Cynthia, I wonder though what prevents women from exercising the priesthood outside the temple or holding priesthood offices, if it is in fact doctrinal that women have the priesthood? Also, I&#8217;m personally uncomfortable with the equation of the powers of mothers in Israel to priesthood power. To the degree that we value agency, mothers&#8217; power is limited (by their children&#8217;s agency). But perhaps we&#8217;re approaching a conceptualization of priesthood power that is equally vacuous.</p>
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		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-48521</link>
		<dc:creator>G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 22:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-48521</guid>
		<description>sort of a threadjack (but this thread is old anyways)...  I just found out that a young (female) cousin was just called to be the seminary president.  Back when I was in seminary (and in the seminary presidency) that calling was always given to a boy. 
 
I am told that several seminaries around out city do in fact have female presidents. 

it is a bit of a stretch to say that the next step will be calling sisters to be sunday school presidents...  but it got me thinking.  

thanks for a thought-provoking post (as always)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sort of a threadjack (but this thread is old anyways)&#8230;  I just found out that a young (female) cousin was just called to be the seminary president.  Back when I was in seminary (and in the seminary presidency) that calling was always given to a boy. </p>
<p>I am told that several seminaries around out city do in fact have female presidents. </p>
<p>it is a bit of a stretch to say that the next step will be calling sisters to be sunday school presidents&#8230;  but it got me thinking.  </p>
<p>thanks for a thought-provoking post (as always)</p>
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		<title>By: stueben</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-48116</link>
		<dc:creator>stueben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 01:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-48116</guid>
		<description>You may find &lt;a href=&quot;http://stuporofthought.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/are-there-mason-jars-in-heaven/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may find <a href="http://stuporofthought.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/are-there-mason-jars-in-heaven/" rel="nofollow">this</a> interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Cynthia</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47809</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynthia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 20:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47809</guid>
		<description>I have heard that a &quot;Mother in Israel&quot; has huge power.  I also know for a fact that as women ordinance workers perform priesthood ordinances in the temple, they ARE exercising priesthood power.  My temple president spoke to our morning shift, and said, that the ordinances performed in the temple on the male side were no more efficacious that those performed by women on the women&#039;s side.  The keys for those ordinances are held by only one person--the President of the Temple--and he sets apart every worker with the same powers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have heard that a &#8220;Mother in Israel&#8221; has huge power.  I also know for a fact that as women ordinance workers perform priesthood ordinances in the temple, they ARE exercising priesthood power.  My temple president spoke to our morning shift, and said, that the ordinances performed in the temple on the male side were no more efficacious that those performed by women on the women&#8217;s side.  The keys for those ordinances are held by only one person&#8211;the President of the Temple&#8211;and he sets apart every worker with the same powers.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynnette</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47010</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 00:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47010</guid>
		<description>What can I say?  I&#039;m just one of those demanding women who always wants more more more.  It probably stems from being a power-hungry feminist. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What can I say?  I&#8217;m just one of those demanding women who always wants more more more.  It probably stems from being a power-hungry feminist. <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47009</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 00:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47009</guid>
		<description>What, Lynnette?  You want more than that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What, Lynnette?  You want more than that?</p>
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		<title>By: Lynnette</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47007</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 00:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47007</guid>
		<description>RoastedTomatoes, that&#039;s really interesting!  As Ziff mentioned, I was just noticing in my (admittedly not terribly in-depth) look at how the term &quot;exaltation&quot; is used, how frequently it&#039;s tied to patriarchy.  It&#039;s interesting to me that exaltation or becoming godlike--at least in the traditional model, though I agree with you that we&#039;ve somewhat distanced ourselves from that-- --is clearly tied to power.  And here&#039;s a sidetrack off that--I&#039;m thinking this raises yet another problem with the priesthood-motherhood dichotomy.  Exaltation presents men with an opportunity to greatly expand what they can do with their priesthood, as they learn to create worlds or what-not.  But if motherhood is the female equivalent, what expanded opportunities does it offer to women (besides that of getting to have billions more children than would be possible in this life? ;) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RoastedTomatoes, that&#8217;s really interesting!  As Ziff mentioned, I was just noticing in my (admittedly not terribly in-depth) look at how the term &#8220;exaltation&#8221; is used, how frequently it&#8217;s tied to patriarchy.  It&#8217;s interesting to me that exaltation or becoming godlike&#8211;at least in the traditional model, though I agree with you that we&#8217;ve somewhat distanced ourselves from that&#8211; &#8211;is clearly tied to power.  And here&#8217;s a sidetrack off that&#8211;I&#8217;m thinking this raises yet another problem with the priesthood-motherhood dichotomy.  Exaltation presents men with an opportunity to greatly expand what they can do with their priesthood, as they learn to create worlds or what-not.  But if motherhood is the female equivalent, what expanded opportunities does it offer to women (besides that of getting to have billions more children than would be possible in this life? <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  )</p>
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		<title>By: Lynnette</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47006</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 00:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-47006</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this post, Kiskilili. I’ve wondered a lot about this question as well, especially when hearing the common idea–as mentioned by BiV–that a woman’s (particularly a mother’s) prayer of faith is just as efficacious as a priesthood blessing. I can certainly see the appeal of that way of thinking, in that women aren’t excluded from drawing on the powers of heaven. But I have hard time seeing how this claim doesn’t in some way devalue the priesthood.

The situation reminds me a bit of pre-Vatican II Catholicism, and the problem of infant baptism. Since the consequences of an infant dying without baptism were presumed to be so drastic, the rules had to be bent as far as who was allowed to administer it. Better to let non-ordained people perform functions normally limited to the ordained than to risk infants being shut out of heaven. (With Vatican II, of course, and its acknowledgment of the possibility of salvation outside the Catholic church, the baptism issue became less pressing.) But I think there are some parallels to our struggle to make sense of what women can and cannot do. The spectre of a mother who doesn’t happen to have quick access to a priesthood holder dealing with a gravely ill child, for example, is disturbing enough to call forth the hope that she can do something that is just as good.

Today I observed two non-LDS acquaintances, one of whom was about to go deal with a challenging situation. The other woman put her arm around the first, and said a prayer for her. It made me think of this post, and I’m curious–would those who believe that female prayer is potentially as efficacious as priesthood extend this to those outside the LDS church? Or would something else (the gift of the Holy Ghost, maybe) be invoked as contributing some vital ingredient?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post, Kiskilili. I’ve wondered a lot about this question as well, especially when hearing the common idea–as mentioned by BiV–that a woman’s (particularly a mother’s) prayer of faith is just as efficacious as a priesthood blessing. I can certainly see the appeal of that way of thinking, in that women aren’t excluded from drawing on the powers of heaven. But I have hard time seeing how this claim doesn’t in some way devalue the priesthood.</p>
<p>The situation reminds me a bit of pre-Vatican II Catholicism, and the problem of infant baptism. Since the consequences of an infant dying without baptism were presumed to be so drastic, the rules had to be bent as far as who was allowed to administer it. Better to let non-ordained people perform functions normally limited to the ordained than to risk infants being shut out of heaven. (With Vatican II, of course, and its acknowledgment of the possibility of salvation outside the Catholic church, the baptism issue became less pressing.) But I think there are some parallels to our struggle to make sense of what women can and cannot do. The spectre of a mother who doesn’t happen to have quick access to a priesthood holder dealing with a gravely ill child, for example, is disturbing enough to call forth the hope that she can do something that is just as good.</p>
<p>Today I observed two non-LDS acquaintances, one of whom was about to go deal with a challenging situation. The other woman put her arm around the first, and said a prayer for her. It made me think of this post, and I’m curious–would those who believe that female prayer is potentially as efficacious as priesthood extend this to those outside the LDS church? Or would something else (the gift of the Holy Ghost, maybe) be invoked as contributing some vital ingredient?</p>
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		<title>By: Kiskilili</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-46783</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiskilili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 02:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2008/05/04/priesthood-attenuation/#comment-46783</guid>
		<description>Fascinating analysis, Roasted Tomatoes--that was exactly the sort of thing I was wondering about!! 

Thanks for your comment, Geoff--I&#039;m not sure whether I consider it problematic or not. I have to admit I wouldn&#039;t find it an appealing &quot;solution&quot; to apparent gender inequalities if priesthood shriveled away to nothing.

J. Stapley, regarding topics such as the lionization of motherhood becoming prominent only in the last few decades, I&#039;m going off my memory of things like Armand Mauss (which I don&#039;t have with me at the moment). If you disagree with his analysis, I&#039;d actually be interested in a post explaining how you would trace the trajectory of the rhetoric of motherhood in the Church differently. Same thing for wifely subordination, both in theory and in practice. But of course no pressure, obviously.

Janeannechovy, it&#039;s interesting how some areas cling tenaciously to the idea that only Melchizedek priesthood holders should offer sacrament meeting invocations, long after the policy was revoked! Even though this frustrates me, at the same time, there&#039;s something I find appealing about its insistence on a robust concept of priesthood, both in terms of ecclesial privilege and its apparent metaphysical ramifications (although I&#039;m not sold on the gender discrimination aspect). Sometimes it seems like we downplay and denigrate our spiritual gifts in an effort to console ourselves that they&#039;re not universally available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fascinating analysis, Roasted Tomatoes&#8211;that was exactly the sort of thing I was wondering about!! </p>
<p>Thanks for your comment, Geoff&#8211;I&#8217;m not sure whether I consider it problematic or not. I have to admit I wouldn&#8217;t find it an appealing &#8220;solution&#8221; to apparent gender inequalities if priesthood shriveled away to nothing.</p>
<p>J. Stapley, regarding topics such as the lionization of motherhood becoming prominent only in the last few decades, I&#8217;m going off my memory of things like Armand Mauss (which I don&#8217;t have with me at the moment). If you disagree with his analysis, I&#8217;d actually be interested in a post explaining how you would trace the trajectory of the rhetoric of motherhood in the Church differently. Same thing for wifely subordination, both in theory and in practice. But of course no pressure, obviously.</p>
<p>Janeannechovy, it&#8217;s interesting how some areas cling tenaciously to the idea that only Melchizedek priesthood holders should offer sacrament meeting invocations, long after the policy was revoked! Even though this frustrates me, at the same time, there&#8217;s something I find appealing about its insistence on a robust concept of priesthood, both in terms of ecclesial privilege and its apparent metaphysical ramifications (although I&#8217;m not sold on the gender discrimination aspect). Sometimes it seems like we downplay and denigrate our spiritual gifts in an effort to console ourselves that they&#8217;re not universally available.</p>
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