Comments on: Feminism’s Critique of Modesty http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/ Thu, 17 May 2012 16:45:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Beatrice http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-66965 Beatrice Sun, 28 Aug 2011 00:13:13 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-66965 Whoops, wrong link! How embarrassing that I linked this post to itself. Here is the real one. http://gbbothsidesnow.blogspot.com/2011/08/what-about-bathsheba.html#comments Whoops, wrong link! How embarrassing that I linked this post to itself. Here is the real one.

http://gbbothsidesnow.blogspot.com/2011/08/what-about-bathsheba.html#comments

]]> By: Beatrice http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-66959 Beatrice Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:36:16 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-66959 I wrote a recent blog post that might be relevant for this discussion http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/. I wrote a recent blog post that might be relevant for this discussion http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/.

]]> By: Zelophehad’s Daughters | ‘Nacle Numbers 2007, Part 3 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-44867 Zelophehad’s Daughters | ‘Nacle Numbers 2007, Part 3 Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:29:19 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-44867 [...] President Beck’s talk.) Geoff J at #3, Seraphine at #8, and Lynnette at #10 were all part of one big long argument discussion. ECS’s most-commented was her comparison of President [...] [...] President Beck’s talk.) Geoff J at #3, Seraphine at #8, and Lynnette at #10 were all part of one big long argument discussion. ECS’s most-commented was her comparison of President [...]

]]> By: Tatiana http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-25214 Tatiana Sun, 22 Apr 2007 01:10:33 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-25214 I agree this has been a great thread. It's caused me to think deeply about all this stuff again. I do believe men and women aren't understanding each other's issues. I wish there were a way we could bridge that gulf. I wish I understood. I agree this has been a great thread. It’s caused me to think deeply about all this stuff again. I do believe men and women aren’t understanding each other’s issues. I wish there were a way we could bridge that gulf. I wish I understood.

]]> By: KLC http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24713 KLC Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:31:30 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24713 Eve, I see your gulf, it's one that I also observed, and certainly more to the point of the entire discussion. Eve, I see your gulf, it’s one that I also observed, and certainly more to the point of the entire discussion.

]]> By: Eve http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24671 Eve Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:47:14 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24671 <blockquote>the 200+ comments once again illustrate to me the huge gulf that exists between how women assume men perceive sex and sexuality and how men actually perceive sex and sexuality. Women take their experience and apply it to men, but many of the comments by women in this thread show you just have no idea what it is to be a teen age boy or young man dealing with sex.</blockquote> That's fascinating, KLC. I don't doubt what you're saying is true, but my perceptions have been just the opposite: that the discussion illustrates the huge gulf between what men think it's like to navigate the minefield of female attire (the constant, intense pressure to be a sexual object for men, and the constant modesty message that feminine sexuality is dangerous to men) and what it's actually like for women to navigate that minefield. I thought that many of the comments by <em>men</em> suggested that <em>they</em> had no idea what it is to be a teenaged girl or young woman dealing with sex. Just goes to show, I guess, that there are probably always more comunication gulfs going on than we realize.

the 200+ comments once again illustrate to me the huge gulf that exists between how women assume men perceive sex and sexuality and how men actually perceive sex and sexuality. Women take their experience and apply it to men, but many of the comments by women in this thread show you just have no idea what it is to be a teen age boy or young man dealing with sex.

That’s fascinating, KLC. I don’t doubt what you’re saying is true, but my perceptions have been just the opposite: that the discussion illustrates the huge gulf between what men think it’s like to navigate the minefield of female attire (the constant, intense pressure to be a sexual object for men, and the constant modesty message that feminine sexuality is dangerous to men) and what it’s actually like for women to navigate that minefield. I thought that many of the comments by men suggested that they had no idea what it is to be a teenaged girl or young woman dealing with sex.

Just goes to show, I guess, that there are probably always more comunication gulfs going on than we realize.

]]> By: Eric Russell http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24670 Eric Russell Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:06:24 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24670 Speaking of art and objectification, see <a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/node/31921" rel="nofollow">this</a> disturbing news report. The objectification of women never ends! Speaking of art and objectification, see this disturbing news report. The objectification of women never ends!

]]> By: KLC http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24665 KLC Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:01:02 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24665 For the next Niblets I nominate this as the most outstanding thread ever in the bloggernacle. Everyone has been thoughtful, specific and concise without being afraid to politely confront opposing opinions. It took a while to read it but it was worth it. Two comments. First, the 200+ comments once again illustrate to me the huge gulf that exists between how women assume men perceive sex and sexuality and how men actually perceive sex and sexuality. Women take their experience and apply it to men, but many of the comments by women in this thread show you just have no idea what it is to be a teen age boy or young man dealing with sex. Second, equating modesty with the way we dress is like equating reverence with folding our arms. I think our culture, in the church and out, would be better if we taught modesty as a way of realistically understanding ourselves in relation to others instead of limiting it to the amount of fabric covering our bodies. For the next Niblets I nominate this as the most outstanding thread ever in the bloggernacle. Everyone has been thoughtful, specific and concise without being afraid to politely confront opposing opinions. It took a while to read it but it was worth it.

Two comments. First, the 200+ comments once again illustrate to me the huge gulf that exists between how women assume men perceive sex and sexuality and how men actually perceive sex and sexuality. Women take their experience and apply it to men, but many of the comments by women in this thread show you just have no idea what it is to be a teen age boy or young man dealing with sex.

Second, equating modesty with the way we dress is like equating reverence with folding our arms. I think our culture, in the church and out, would be better if we taught modesty as a way of realistically understanding ourselves in relation to others instead of limiting it to the amount of fabric covering our bodies.

]]> By: Seraphine http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24641 Seraphine Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:40:45 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24641 Kristine, thanks for a fabulous overview/analysis of a lot of the issues we've been discussing. I was thinking of doing a follow-up post on the difficulties women encounter when their experience of their own sexuality (as a sexual subject) is undermined by cultural scripts that rewrite them as objects (based on a great essay by Iris Marion Young). Maybe when I'm done with all my grading in a few weeks. :) ECS, thanks. And thanks to you (and everyone else on the thread) for the lively discussion! (And Kristine, you'll notice that I have my own issues with parentheses--and I'm an English instructor!) Kristine, thanks for a fabulous overview/analysis of a lot of the issues we’ve been discussing. I was thinking of doing a follow-up post on the difficulties women encounter when their experience of their own sexuality (as a sexual subject) is undermined by cultural scripts that rewrite them as objects (based on a great essay by Iris Marion Young). Maybe when I’m done with all my grading in a few weeks. :)

ECS, thanks. And thanks to you (and everyone else on the thread) for the lively discussion!

(And Kristine, you’ll notice that I have my own issues with parentheses–and I’m an English instructor!)

]]> By: Kristine http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24624 Kristine Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:19:05 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/10/feminisms-critique-of-modesty/#comment-24624 Mark, believe me, I'm *very* willing to hold women accountable for stupid activities like fashion shows and makeover nights. This tends to mean I don't get to stay in YW Presidencies very long :) I'm also sympathetic to the difficulties young men face in growing up with a healthy sexual identity, both in and out of the church. And getting more sympathetic by the day, as my firstborn starts wading out into the deep water of adolescence (just bought his first deodorant and Clearasil...yikes!! and this boy who has always resisted even bathing asked if we could get some gel for his hair--I quake in terror) I wouldn't have known Christy Hefner was the CEO of Playboy these days. But I'm not the sort of feminist who would cheer such a development. So, I think we have reached something like agreement... Mark, believe me, I’m *very* willing to hold women accountable for stupid activities like fashion shows and makeover nights. This tends to mean I don’t get to stay in YW Presidencies very long :)

I’m also sympathetic to the difficulties young men face in growing up with a healthy sexual identity, both in and out of the church. And getting more sympathetic by the day, as my firstborn starts wading out into the deep water of adolescence (just bought his first deodorant and Clearasil…yikes!! and this boy who has always resisted even bathing asked if we could get some gel for his hair–I quake in terror)

I wouldn’t have known Christy Hefner was the CEO of Playboy these days. But I’m not the sort of feminist who would cheer such a development.

So, I think we have reached something like agreement…

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