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	<title>Comments on: The Sexisms of Graduate School</title>
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		<title>By: Naismith</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-22916</link>
		<dc:creator>Naismith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 03:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-22916</guid>
		<description>I did run into some other sexisms in academe, though.  One is that some male professors think twice or three times about mentoring a female grad student if the field is one like archaeology or ecology where field work is involved, and they may spend days or weeks in the wild together.  My husband and I have had long talks about this, and he has taken on some female students, but never if they were the least bit flirtateous during initial interviews or even if he didn&#039;t have a good feeling about it, which is rather subjective and unfair, but oh well.    

Such a phenomenon should apply to mixed-gender mentoring of any gender, but it tends to affect female grad students more in fields where most professors are male.  

And that certainly doesn&#039;t take the prize for snap judgments; I&#039;ve worked with a scientist who refused to even interview anyone whose email username was the least bit sexual (hotgirl) or religious (4jesus).  They were the first ones out of the pile.  And it&#039;s amazing how many college students  have such unprofessional email addresses (and mostly women in the cases I&#039;ve seen).    

The other issue is that while THE FEMININE MYSTIQUE talks about grad school as being a good option for women while they are raising families, etc., in reality nowadays most programs require fulltime enrollment plus an assistantship.  This is brutal on family life, especially if spring break for the university does not mesh with spring break for the public schools.  To me this is sexist, because it makes women do grad school exactly like a man.  And I don&#039;t have a wife, so I couldn&#039;t keep up that pace.  

I did go to grad school with 3 kids in school, but I had a University Fellowship so that I didn&#039;t have to work at an assistantship, and my children&#039;s spring break was at the same time, and I didn&#039;t take classes during summer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did run into some other sexisms in academe, though.  One is that some male professors think twice or three times about mentoring a female grad student if the field is one like archaeology or ecology where field work is involved, and they may spend days or weeks in the wild together.  My husband and I have had long talks about this, and he has taken on some female students, but never if they were the least bit flirtateous during initial interviews or even if he didn&#8217;t have a good feeling about it, which is rather subjective and unfair, but oh well.    </p>
<p>Such a phenomenon should apply to mixed-gender mentoring of any gender, but it tends to affect female grad students more in fields where most professors are male.  </p>
<p>And that certainly doesn&#8217;t take the prize for snap judgments; I&#8217;ve worked with a scientist who refused to even interview anyone whose email username was the least bit sexual (hotgirl) or religious (4jesus).  They were the first ones out of the pile.  And it&#8217;s amazing how many college students  have such unprofessional email addresses (and mostly women in the cases I&#8217;ve seen).    </p>
<p>The other issue is that while THE FEMININE MYSTIQUE talks about grad school as being a good option for women while they are raising families, etc., in reality nowadays most programs require fulltime enrollment plus an assistantship.  This is brutal on family life, especially if spring break for the university does not mesh with spring break for the public schools.  To me this is sexist, because it makes women do grad school exactly like a man.  And I don&#8217;t have a wife, so I couldn&#8217;t keep up that pace.  </p>
<p>I did go to grad school with 3 kids in school, but I had a University Fellowship so that I didn&#8217;t have to work at an assistantship, and my children&#8217;s spring break was at the same time, and I didn&#8217;t take classes during summer.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21938</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21938</guid>
		<description>Eve is quite right about lechers being very skilled at walking the fine line when it comes to those who are in prominent positions.  If they werent talented in their perversions and cunning in their approach, they never would have gotten as far as they are.  The blunt ones dont get far in academia, only the smooth and sophisticated ones rise through the ranks, which makes it all the more difficult to bring the law to bear on them.  Good luck, Eve, you are in a difficult situation.  Have some fun with it and find out one of Dr. Lecher&#039;s pet peeves and ever so subtly play on it to make yourself an eyesore.  If he hates a certain color or type of clothes, subtly work it into your wardrobe over time until it is a common component.  You have to beat him at his own game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eve is quite right about lechers being very skilled at walking the fine line when it comes to those who are in prominent positions.  If they werent talented in their perversions and cunning in their approach, they never would have gotten as far as they are.  The blunt ones dont get far in academia, only the smooth and sophisticated ones rise through the ranks, which makes it all the more difficult to bring the law to bear on them.  Good luck, Eve, you are in a difficult situation.  Have some fun with it and find out one of Dr. Lecher&#8217;s pet peeves and ever so subtly play on it to make yourself an eyesore.  If he hates a certain color or type of clothes, subtly work it into your wardrobe over time until it is a common component.  You have to beat him at his own game.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21745</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21745</guid>
		<description>Jessawhy, good question. I&#039;ve got some time (at least a year) before I decide just how closely I want to work with this person, which is why I decided to mull over my options here in public and get all of your ideas and suggestions.

Great feminist advice! As it happens, I excel in wearing ugly clothes and not doing my hair (I&#039;ve been known to be driving down the road and suddenly realize that I haven&#039;t even dragged a brush or comb through my mop...). I chose grad school partly for its lovely, lovely dress code. One reason I could never be a lawyer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessawhy, good question. I&#8217;ve got some time (at least a year) before I decide just how closely I want to work with this person, which is why I decided to mull over my options here in public and get all of your ideas and suggestions.</p>
<p>Great feminist advice! As it happens, I excel in wearing ugly clothes and not doing my hair (I&#8217;ve been known to be driving down the road and suddenly realize that I haven&#8217;t even dragged a brush or comb through my mop&#8230;). I chose grad school partly for its lovely, lovely dress code. One reason I could never be a lawyer.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessawhy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21738</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessawhy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 01:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21738</guid>
		<description>So, Eve, if you choose to, will you have to work with this professor for a long or short time?  Would you have to spend time with him one-on-one? It seems like a tricky situation. I hope you get through it in the most professional way possible. (wear ugly clothes and don&#039;t do your hair, how&#039;s that for feminist advice?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Eve, if you choose to, will you have to work with this professor for a long or short time?  Would you have to spend time with him one-on-one? It seems like a tricky situation. I hope you get through it in the most professional way possible. (wear ugly clothes and don&#8217;t do your hair, how&#8217;s that for feminist advice?)</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21730</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 00:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21730</guid>
		<description>AmyB, thanks for the kind words. Nice to see you here!

Space Chick, I really appreciate your perspective. I&#039;m particularly interested in hearing what others encounter in other fields that might be dominated by different cultures. I&#039;m glad to hear your professors were so supportive (and I should add again that the vast majority of my male professors have been great--kind and civil and encouraging without being in the least inappropriate). I have no idea how typical, or atypical, my own experience is.

Mark, I tend to think your analysis is accurate. Universities really did not evolve to deal with sexual attraction among their inhabitants, and the issues of power and age that come into play can pose irresistible temptations to some professors, I think. I read somewhere of a study that found male teachers and college professors are more likely to divorce than their non-teaching counterparts, and the speculation was that they&#039;re constantly surrounded by attractive young women; they constantly see the alternatives to their wives. We in the academy certainly have our share of performing egos, and you may well be right that obnoxious behavior is more quickly and ruthlessly weeded out in the business world than it is in the tenure-protected ivory tower. It&#039;s been my observation that getting anything done in a university takes twice as long because we all like to sit and ponder multiple alternatives, perspectives, implications more than we like to take decisive action.

Thanks for your sympathy and your vote of confidence! I do hope you&#039;re right that I CAN hold my own; I don&#039;t want to overestimate my ability to deal with the situation.

Naismith, actually, I&#039;m neither accepting nor resigned; as it happens I&#039;m ranting sarcastically in a tone of which I myself do not entirely approve (yet again, what a shocker!).

See? Not a whit of resignation hereabouts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AmyB, thanks for the kind words. Nice to see you here!</p>
<p>Space Chick, I really appreciate your perspective. I&#8217;m particularly interested in hearing what others encounter in other fields that might be dominated by different cultures. I&#8217;m glad to hear your professors were so supportive (and I should add again that the vast majority of my male professors have been great&#8211;kind and civil and encouraging without being in the least inappropriate). I have no idea how typical, or atypical, my own experience is.</p>
<p>Mark, I tend to think your analysis is accurate. Universities really did not evolve to deal with sexual attraction among their inhabitants, and the issues of power and age that come into play can pose irresistible temptations to some professors, I think. I read somewhere of a study that found male teachers and college professors are more likely to divorce than their non-teaching counterparts, and the speculation was that they&#8217;re constantly surrounded by attractive young women; they constantly see the alternatives to their wives. We in the academy certainly have our share of performing egos, and you may well be right that obnoxious behavior is more quickly and ruthlessly weeded out in the business world than it is in the tenure-protected ivory tower. It&#8217;s been my observation that getting anything done in a university takes twice as long because we all like to sit and ponder multiple alternatives, perspectives, implications more than we like to take decisive action.</p>
<p>Thanks for your sympathy and your vote of confidence! I do hope you&#8217;re right that I CAN hold my own; I don&#8217;t want to overestimate my ability to deal with the situation.</p>
<p>Naismith, actually, I&#8217;m neither accepting nor resigned; as it happens I&#8217;m ranting sarcastically in a tone of which I myself do not entirely approve (yet again, what a shocker!).</p>
<p>See? Not a whit of resignation hereabouts.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21728</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2007 00:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21728</guid>
		<description>Kurt, I didn&#039;t mean to suggest that it has anything to do with classics or lit; those are just the fields in which I&#039;ve encountered it, since those are the fields in which I&#039;ve worked. You nicely outline my general approach to the problem of lechers (and other generally poisonous people, male and female): damage control. Lechers can often be avoided. Sometimes, though, they&#039;re the people with what you want, and other people in the department who are much nicer and saner don&#039;t have what you want. That&#039;s when it gets trickier, and that&#039;s the dilemma I&#039;m trying to consider in my post.

Ann and Sam, thanks very much for your legal suggestions. I should probably be clearer here and explain that I personally am not being sexually harassed at this time. (And having served a mission in southern Italy, I consider myself to have a black belt in managing sexual harassment. Or a brown one, at least.) Your suggestion about consulting university counsel on the issue is a good one, and one that might be appropriate at some point. I personally haven&#039;t had problems in this particular situation (yet); I&#039;ve just heard of others having problems. So what I&#039;m wondering--hoping--is that if I manage the situation right by keeping everything tightly focused and professional, I can get what I want and emerge unscathed. (I&#039;m hardly a cute, young grad student anymore; I&#039;m approaching middle age, and I&#039;m fiestier and more willing to disagree with authority all the time.) On the other hand, I also wonder if I&#039;m being naive and arrogant in thinking I can manage the situation.

The heart of the problem is that, as is usually the case with this class of human beings Kurt has labelled &quot;lechers,&quot; is that most of what they do is very subtle. They&#039;re just a little too friendly, a little too invasive of personal space, a little too eager to talk about sex in class--or out of it. What&#039;s really complicated, though, is that another man could perform all of the same actions, perhaps even make some of the same statements, word for word, without it having any creepy valence whatsoever. Usually it&#039;s nothing I can point to with certain people, and I don&#039;t trust my own intuitions to the point that I would make an accusation against someone on something so subtle.

At one point in my academic career I was faced with exactly this sort of comparison. I was working with two different men, in two different capacities. Both were really friendly, and both would sometimes comment on my appearance favorably or toss off comments or jokes about sex. In one case it was completely 100% innocent and didn&#039;t bother me in the least; it was like working with my dad or uncle. In the other case it was a little creepy. But there is absolutely nothing concrete I could point to to differentiate between the two situations.

I remain convinced that other than the blatant propositions and threats, sexual harassment (or general creepiness, if you prefer, or lechery) is not a matter of what someone says or does; it&#039;s a matter of who they &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; in those words and actions. And I also realize that such a definition would be a legal nightmare. There really is no way to deal with such subjective impressions legally. And I find it sad when teachers hesitate to touch students at all for fear of accusations. (I sometimes pat students on the arm, for example--could someone make a case against me?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kurt, I didn&#8217;t mean to suggest that it has anything to do with classics or lit; those are just the fields in which I&#8217;ve encountered it, since those are the fields in which I&#8217;ve worked. You nicely outline my general approach to the problem of lechers (and other generally poisonous people, male and female): damage control. Lechers can often be avoided. Sometimes, though, they&#8217;re the people with what you want, and other people in the department who are much nicer and saner don&#8217;t have what you want. That&#8217;s when it gets trickier, and that&#8217;s the dilemma I&#8217;m trying to consider in my post.</p>
<p>Ann and Sam, thanks very much for your legal suggestions. I should probably be clearer here and explain that I personally am not being sexually harassed at this time. (And having served a mission in southern Italy, I consider myself to have a black belt in managing sexual harassment. Or a brown one, at least.) Your suggestion about consulting university counsel on the issue is a good one, and one that might be appropriate at some point. I personally haven&#8217;t had problems in this particular situation (yet); I&#8217;ve just heard of others having problems. So what I&#8217;m wondering&#8211;hoping&#8211;is that if I manage the situation right by keeping everything tightly focused and professional, I can get what I want and emerge unscathed. (I&#8217;m hardly a cute, young grad student anymore; I&#8217;m approaching middle age, and I&#8217;m fiestier and more willing to disagree with authority all the time.) On the other hand, I also wonder if I&#8217;m being naive and arrogant in thinking I can manage the situation.</p>
<p>The heart of the problem is that, as is usually the case with this class of human beings Kurt has labelled &#8220;lechers,&#8221; is that most of what they do is very subtle. They&#8217;re just a little too friendly, a little too invasive of personal space, a little too eager to talk about sex in class&#8211;or out of it. What&#8217;s really complicated, though, is that another man could perform all of the same actions, perhaps even make some of the same statements, word for word, without it having any creepy valence whatsoever. Usually it&#8217;s nothing I can point to with certain people, and I don&#8217;t trust my own intuitions to the point that I would make an accusation against someone on something so subtle.</p>
<p>At one point in my academic career I was faced with exactly this sort of comparison. I was working with two different men, in two different capacities. Both were really friendly, and both would sometimes comment on my appearance favorably or toss off comments or jokes about sex. In one case it was completely 100% innocent and didn&#8217;t bother me in the least; it was like working with my dad or uncle. In the other case it was a little creepy. But there is absolutely nothing concrete I could point to to differentiate between the two situations.</p>
<p>I remain convinced that other than the blatant propositions and threats, sexual harassment (or general creepiness, if you prefer, or lechery) is not a matter of what someone says or does; it&#8217;s a matter of who they <em>are</em> in those words and actions. And I also realize that such a definition would be a legal nightmare. There really is no way to deal with such subjective impressions legally. And I find it sad when teachers hesitate to touch students at all for fear of accusations. (I sometimes pat students on the arm, for example&#8211;could someone make a case against me?)</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21723</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21723</guid>
		<description>Seraphine, heh heh. I should probably lay my cards on the table here and confess to a conflicted relationship with theory. I like it when it&#039;s well done, but it sometimes seems obfuscatory and ideologically shrill (characeteristics, of course, not limited to theory by any means). Still, I have to wonder about the literary world&#039;s zealous embrace of extremely difficult, recondite theory in the 70s and 80s, if it wasn&#039;t a way of asserting the legitimacy of the humanities by aping science, our queen of discourses (sorry, Lynnette, it&#039;s not theology anymore!). To paraphrase something Lynnette said to me recently, learning a field is, in a sense, learning to speak its nonsense. And my, have we got some formidable nonsense making the rounds! 

But you raise a fascinating question, what to make of a woman who likes [high literary theory / obscure ancient languages / philosophy / nuclear physics], who, for whatever reason, immerses herself in a form of knowledge that&#039;s somehow considered masculine. Wish I had something more profound to say about it than &quot;it&#039;s a fascinating question&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seraphine, heh heh. I should probably lay my cards on the table here and confess to a conflicted relationship with theory. I like it when it&#8217;s well done, but it sometimes seems obfuscatory and ideologically shrill (characeteristics, of course, not limited to theory by any means). Still, I have to wonder about the literary world&#8217;s zealous embrace of extremely difficult, recondite theory in the 70s and 80s, if it wasn&#8217;t a way of asserting the legitimacy of the humanities by aping science, our queen of discourses (sorry, Lynnette, it&#8217;s not theology anymore!). To paraphrase something Lynnette said to me recently, learning a field is, in a sense, learning to speak its nonsense. And my, have we got some formidable nonsense making the rounds! </p>
<p>But you raise a fascinating question, what to make of a woman who likes [high literary theory / obscure ancient languages / philosophy / nuclear physics], who, for whatever reason, immerses herself in a form of knowledge that&#8217;s somehow considered masculine. Wish I had something more profound to say about it than &#8220;it&#8217;s a fascinating question&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: Naismith</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21722</link>
		<dc:creator>Naismith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21722</guid>
		<description>&quot;...do you think that offenders at universities get protection from the institution of tenure?&quot;

I do not.  I can&#039;t think of a university where moral terpitude is not a reason for dismissal regardless of tenure status.  This gets talked about a lot in the Chronicle of Higher Education.

At the university where I atended grad school, a full professsor who was also a program director was fired for not keeping his hands off his students.  

I don&#039;t understand the acceptance and resignation; this is NOT an inevitable part of grad student life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;do you think that offenders at universities get protection from the institution of tenure?&#8221;</p>
<p>I do not.  I can&#8217;t think of a university where moral terpitude is not a reason for dismissal regardless of tenure status.  This gets talked about a lot in the Chronicle of Higher Education.</p>
<p>At the university where I atended grad school, a full professsor who was also a program director was fired for not keeping his hands off his students.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand the acceptance and resignation; this is NOT an inevitable part of grad student life.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark IV</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21719</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark IV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21719</guid>
		<description>Eve, do you think that offenders at universities get protection from the institution of tenure?  I&#039;ve worked in a lot of different companies of varying sizes, and they all were highly motivated to get rid of both sexists and sexualists.  Jock strap wearing alpha males who like to paw the ground and snort at one another usually don&#039;t last long.

Also, whenever I am on a campus, I am always surprised at how much the undergrads (and I assume grad students) pander to the egos of the professors.  It is really kind of sickening.  The whole enterprise presents a situation ripe for exploitation, given the difference in age and the power the prof wields over the student&#039;s future.  You have my sympathy, though you probably don&#039;t need it.  Something tells me you can hold your own.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eve, do you think that offenders at universities get protection from the institution of tenure?  I&#8217;ve worked in a lot of different companies of varying sizes, and they all were highly motivated to get rid of both sexists and sexualists.  Jock strap wearing alpha males who like to paw the ground and snort at one another usually don&#8217;t last long.</p>
<p>Also, whenever I am on a campus, I am always surprised at how much the undergrads (and I assume grad students) pander to the egos of the professors.  It is really kind of sickening.  The whole enterprise presents a situation ripe for exploitation, given the difference in age and the power the prof wields over the student&#8217;s future.  You have my sympathy, though you probably don&#8217;t need it.  Something tells me you can hold your own.  <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Space Chick</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21716</link>
		<dc:creator>Space Chick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/04/02/the-sexisms-of-graduate-school/#comment-21716</guid>
		<description>Great Scott.  I can&#039;t remember my engineering grad program as ANYTHING like this.  Is it unique to the fuzzier studies?  My professors were very supportive in helping women succeed in our field, and their only flaw might have been shredding our oral defenses less thoroughly than those of our male classmates (dare I call the poor boys &quot;coeds&quot;?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Scott.  I can&#8217;t remember my engineering grad program as ANYTHING like this.  Is it unique to the fuzzier studies?  My professors were very supportive in helping women succeed in our field, and their only flaw might have been shredding our oral defenses less thoroughly than those of our male classmates (dare I call the poor boys &#8220;coeds&#8221;?).</p>
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