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	<title>Comments on: Turning the Other Cheek</title>
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	<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/</link>
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		<title>By: Jessawhy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-16616</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessawhy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 04:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-16616</guid>
		<description>I was talking with my husband about righteous anger, and he thinks that it doesn&#039;t apply to us as humans, that it only applied to Christ.  I&#039;m not sure I agree, but we have been told to forgive everyone and that Christ will forgive whom he will forgive.
So, righteous or unrighteous, I know I need to be a lot more patient and a lot less indignant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was talking with my husband about righteous anger, and he thinks that it doesn&#8217;t apply to us as humans, that it only applied to Christ.  I&#8217;m not sure I agree, but we have been told to forgive everyone and that Christ will forgive whom he will forgive.<br />
So, righteous or unrighteous, I know I need to be a lot more patient and a lot less indignant.</p>
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		<title>By: Seraphine</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-16559</link>
		<dc:creator>Seraphine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-16559</guid>
		<description>klh, it does seem like there are occasions where anger can be helpful or justified.  Still, I think it&#039;s such a volatile emotion and can be so easily used for wrong and hurtful ends that I tend to do my best to work through it and rid it from my life.

AmyB, thanks for the quote, and I&#039;m in agreement with you.  I&#039;ve definitely fallen into similar kinds of pitfalls myself, and I&#039;ve found that working &quot;through&quot; the anger (by allowing myself to feel it and deal with it) is the tactic that has worked the best in my life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>klh, it does seem like there are occasions where anger can be helpful or justified.  Still, I think it&#8217;s such a volatile emotion and can be so easily used for wrong and hurtful ends that I tend to do my best to work through it and rid it from my life.</p>
<p>AmyB, thanks for the quote, and I&#8217;m in agreement with you.  I&#8217;ve definitely fallen into similar kinds of pitfalls myself, and I&#8217;ve found that working &#8220;through&#8221; the anger (by allowing myself to feel it and deal with it) is the tactic that has worked the best in my life.</p>
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		<title>By: AmyB</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-15522</link>
		<dc:creator>AmyB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 23:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-15522</guid>
		<description>I just recieved an email citing a &lt;a href=&quot;http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/49/4/541?&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;book review&lt;/a&gt; that mentions certain pitfalls of  what it terms &quot;spiritual practice&quot;.

This particular quote made me think of this thread:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The clinician should be mindful of the &quot;defensive misuse of spirituality and inflation of the ego.&quot; For example, a client&#039;s suppression of strong feelings of anger, rage, depression, sadness, or hatred by a pseudospiritual presentation of forgiveness and love for all people should be gently confronted in case the client is using spirituality as a defense against emotions that feel too dangerous to allow into conscious awareness.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I know for myself that my most powerful experience of being able to forgive came only after I allowed myself to fully feel my anger and then work through it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just recieved an email citing a <a href="http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/49/4/541?" rel="nofollow">book review</a> that mentions certain pitfalls of  what it terms &#8220;spiritual practice&#8221;.</p>
<p>This particular quote made me think of this thread:</p>
<blockquote><p>The clinician should be mindful of the &#8220;defensive misuse of spirituality and inflation of the ego.&#8221; For example, a client&#8217;s suppression of strong feelings of anger, rage, depression, sadness, or hatred by a pseudospiritual presentation of forgiveness and love for all people should be gently confronted in case the client is using spirituality as a defense against emotions that feel too dangerous to allow into conscious awareness.</p></blockquote>
<p>I know for myself that my most powerful experience of being able to forgive came only after I allowed myself to fully feel my anger and then work through it.</p>
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		<title>By: klh</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-15234</link>
		<dc:creator>klh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-15234</guid>
		<description>As number two hundred and fifty-eight thousand five hundred and eighty-five most wittily profound person in the Mormon bloggonacle, I&#039;d say it&#039;s not so much anger itself that&#039;s good or bad as the actions resulting from it: &quot;By their fruits&quot;? So that spontaneous anger as channeled to motivate rightous actions such as forgiveness or else not overreacting while still not wanting to stand for abuse: HMM...YEAH, I LIKE!; whereas, self-protective instincts allowed to result in inordinate resentment and secret designs of sabotage: UMMM...NNNNO, NOT SO MUCH. :^)  

A sticky question, though, since, as Ecclesiastes says, there&#039;s a time for peace a time for war and making a stand sometimes means we have to resort to pummeling bullies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As number two hundred and fifty-eight thousand five hundred and eighty-five most wittily profound person in the Mormon bloggonacle, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s not so much anger itself that&#8217;s good or bad as the actions resulting from it: &#8220;By their fruits&#8221;? So that spontaneous anger as channeled to motivate rightous actions such as forgiveness or else not overreacting while still not wanting to stand for abuse: HMM&#8230;YEAH, I LIKE!; whereas, self-protective instincts allowed to result in inordinate resentment and secret designs of sabotage: UMMM&#8230;NNNNO, NOT SO MUCH. :^)  </p>
<p>A sticky question, though, since, as Ecclesiastes says, there&#8217;s a time for peace a time for war and making a stand sometimes means we have to resort to pummeling bullies.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14845</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 04:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14845</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;#17 Seraphine wrote: &lt;i&gt;I think I&#039;m going to have to agree with Ann. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Y&#039;all will save a lot of time if you program a keyboard macro to type that statement out :P&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#17 Seraphine wrote: <i>I think I&#8217;m going to have to agree with Ann. </i></p>
<p>Y&#8217;all will save a lot of time if you program a keyboard macro to type that statement out <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Seraphine</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14812</link>
		<dc:creator>Seraphine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14812</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Starfoxy, I love the question you ask:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I&#039;m curious, though, where the distinction is between the unrighteous anger, and the righteous anger. Does the difference lay in what we do with those feelings, how long we keep them, or perhaps in subtle differences within the emotion itself?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I wish I had a good answer, but I don&#039;t.  I tend to think that there is a difference in the emotion itself (that there is a form of anger that God feels that is justified), but because I think that as mortals we are most likely to end up in a place of unrighteous anger, that we should not try to justify any anger as righteous anger.  Instead, we should just focus on working through the anger, dealing with it, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Starfoxy, I love the question you ask:</p>
<p><i>I&#8217;m curious, though, where the distinction is between the unrighteous anger, and the righteous anger. Does the difference lay in what we do with those feelings, how long we keep them, or perhaps in subtle differences within the emotion itself?</i></p>
<p>I wish I had a good answer, but I don&#8217;t.  I tend to think that there is a difference in the emotion itself (that there is a form of anger that God feels that is justified), but because I think that as mortals we are most likely to end up in a place of unrighteous anger, that we should not try to justify any anger as righteous anger.  Instead, we should just focus on working through the anger, dealing with it, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Seraphine</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14811</link>
		<dc:creator>Seraphine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 20:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14811</guid>
		<description>Eve, thanks for restating one of the concerns of my post.  It was a question I had (but didn&#039;t really have a good answer for).  And Lynnette, I really like that interpretation (even if it&#039;s not entirely accurate), so thanks!

Charity, I think I&#039;m going to have to agree with Ann.  While I think there are many instances where we get irritated about small, inconsequential things, and we need to display more patience and less anger, I think in situations where true offense has been given (such as the serious examples Ann states), it is difficult, and not necessarily wise to try and immediately escape/ignore anger (or you can run into some of the problems that Lynnette has run into).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eve, thanks for restating one of the concerns of my post.  It was a question I had (but didn&#8217;t really have a good answer for).  And Lynnette, I really like that interpretation (even if it&#8217;s not entirely accurate), so thanks!</p>
<p>Charity, I think I&#8217;m going to have to agree with Ann.  While I think there are many instances where we get irritated about small, inconsequential things, and we need to display more patience and less anger, I think in situations where true offense has been given (such as the serious examples Ann states), it is difficult, and not necessarily wise to try and immediately escape/ignore anger (or you can run into some of the problems that Lynnette has run into).</p>
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		<title>By: Starfoxy</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14799</link>
		<dc:creator>Starfoxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14799</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard that same interpretation Lynnette. Something that I think supports it&#039; is that the vast majority of bullies (I use the term &#039;bully liberally to describe anyone of any age who is mean, manipulative, or abusive) aren&#039;t particuluarly interested in what they&#039;re doing to you, they&#039;re interested in the feeling of power they get from making you do something you don&#039;t want to do. By giving them more than what they asked for you are defining the terms of the relationship and are reclaiming control of the situation. Sure the bully probably won&#039;t have an instant change of heart and will still run off with your coat &lt;em&gt;and&lt;/em&gt; your cloak too, but the situation will not have been satisfying for them in the way they are accustomed to because you denied them the power of manipulating you. Also, if the bully isn&#039;t after that feeling of power, chances are they actually need something, be it whatever they are stealing from you, or simply some positive attention. I think the bishop from Les Miserables illustrates this principle and it&#039;s effects on the life of the bully perfectly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard that same interpretation Lynnette. Something that I think supports it&#8217; is that the vast majority of bullies (I use the term &#8216;bully liberally to describe anyone of any age who is mean, manipulative, or abusive) aren&#8217;t particuluarly interested in what they&#8217;re doing to you, they&#8217;re interested in the feeling of power they get from making you do something you don&#8217;t want to do. By giving them more than what they asked for you are defining the terms of the relationship and are reclaiming control of the situation. Sure the bully probably won&#8217;t have an instant change of heart and will still run off with your coat <em>and</em> your cloak too, but the situation will not have been satisfying for them in the way they are accustomed to because you denied them the power of manipulating you. Also, if the bully isn&#8217;t after that feeling of power, chances are they actually need something, be it whatever they are stealing from you, or simply some positive attention. I think the bishop from Les Miserables illustrates this principle and it&#8217;s effects on the life of the bully perfectly.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynnette</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14794</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 16:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14794</guid>
		<description>In one of Eugene England&#039;s essays he cites the work of Walter Wink on nonviolence:
&lt;blockquote&gt;[Wink] argues that the passage I have just read from the Sermon on the Mount has been misunderstood: Christ&#039;s command to &quot;resist not evil&quot; is assumed to mean we should be passive in the face of evil.  Wink points out that that is a bad translation.  What it more accurately says is &quot;Do not respond &lt;em&gt;violently&lt;/em&gt; to violence.&quot; . . .

Wink points out that in that culture smiting a person on the right cheek was done only to humiliate inferiors and only with the back side of the right hand.  The left hand could only be used for unclean tasks, and to actually strike a person, an inferior, directly with a fist would be to recognize them as an equal.  So if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other cheek, the left cheek.  Now he can neither strike you with his fist nor backhand you with his left hand, which puts him in a remarkably difficult position: even your process of submission becomes a judgment on his violence.

(from Eugene England, &quot;The Prince of Peace,&quot; in &lt;em&gt;Making Peace: Personal Essays&lt;/em&gt;)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;ll leave it to the New Testament scholars among us to weigh in on the plausibility of that interpretation, but I find it intriguing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In one of Eugene England&#8217;s essays he cites the work of Walter Wink on nonviolence:</p>
<blockquote><p>[Wink] argues that the passage I have just read from the Sermon on the Mount has been misunderstood: Christ&#8217;s command to &#8220;resist not evil&#8221; is assumed to mean we should be passive in the face of evil.  Wink points out that that is a bad translation.  What it more accurately says is &#8220;Do not respond <em>violently</em> to violence.&#8221; . . .</p>
<p>Wink points out that in that culture smiting a person on the right cheek was done only to humiliate inferiors and only with the back side of the right hand.  The left hand could only be used for unclean tasks, and to actually strike a person, an inferior, directly with a fist would be to recognize them as an equal.  So if someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other cheek, the left cheek.  Now he can neither strike you with his fist nor backhand you with his left hand, which puts him in a remarkably difficult position: even your process of submission becomes a judgment on his violence.</p>
<p>(from Eugene England, &#8220;The Prince of Peace,&#8221; in <em>Making Peace: Personal Essays</em>)</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ll leave it to the New Testament scholars among us to weigh in on the plausibility of that interpretation, but I find it intriguing.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14792</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2007/02/19/turning-the-other-cheek/#comment-14792</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m very sympathetic to the general tenor of comments here; in my own life I&#039;ve had very similar experiences, and I&#039;ve found that forgiveness sometimes requires distance.

But I&#039;ve always wondered: if forgiveness does not demand that we put ourselves into situations where we are repeatedly victimized--and my belief is very much that it does not--what, then, we do with the verse in the Sermon on Mount about not resisting evil and about turning the other cheek that Seraphine places at the beginning of her post? It does seem to suggest that we not defend ourselves. 

How do all of you understand this passage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very sympathetic to the general tenor of comments here; in my own life I&#8217;ve had very similar experiences, and I&#8217;ve found that forgiveness sometimes requires distance.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;ve always wondered: if forgiveness does not demand that we put ourselves into situations where we are repeatedly victimized&#8211;and my belief is very much that it does not&#8211;what, then, we do with the verse in the Sermon on Mount about not resisting evil and about turning the other cheek that Seraphine places at the beginning of her post? It does seem to suggest that we not defend ourselves. </p>
<p>How do all of you understand this passage?</p>
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