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	<title>Comments on: Fun with Numbers: Is the Church Appealing to Women?</title>
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		<title>By: By Common Consent &#187; Seeking for Mormon Feminism - Part I</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-49544</link>
		<dc:creator>By Common Consent &#187; Seeking for Mormon Feminism - Part I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 20:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-49544</guid>
		<description>[...] A few interesting suggestions have been made in the bloggernacle. For instance, Ziff at ZDs has suggested that the church doesn&#8217;t actually hold on to women so well &#8212; that actually, women are more religious than men in general, and that the LDS church isn&#8217;t particularly uniqu.... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A few interesting suggestions have been made in the bloggernacle. For instance, Ziff at ZDs has suggested that the church doesn&#8217;t actually hold on to women so well &#8212; that actually, women are more religious than men in general, and that the LDS church isn&#8217;t particularly uniqu&#8230;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Judall</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-39385</link>
		<dc:creator>Judall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-39385</guid>
		<description>I understand the ratio of active women to men in the LDS faith is 3 women to every 1man, also the percentage of temple worthy is 7 women to every 1 man. Has anyone else heard this? I have heard this from numerous bishops and even from a stake president. Guess this is why the Lord once had plural marriages at one time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the ratio of active women to men in the LDS faith is 3 women to every 1man, also the percentage of temple worthy is 7 women to every 1 man. Has anyone else heard this? I have heard this from numerous bishops and even from a stake president. Guess this is why the Lord once had plural marriages at one time.</p>
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		<title>By: bbell</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2608</link>
		<dc:creator>bbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2608</guid>
		<description>Hi all,

Good discussion. My comment was based on Activity as measured by my personal experience with Church records and activity in about 5 different units.  Here in the US it seems to me that Women ARE more active then men on average. The men seem more alienated to me. 

As for Africa.  Julie has repeated this claim that Men are more active then women in Africa. In my 2 year mission in South Africa and Namibia this was really not the case.  We had entire branches of women and children with a sprinkling of men.  This pattern was consistent in tribal dominated units across SA and Namibia.  The only place where it was not true was in White wards and branches.

In the tribal areas we would tract with a specific goal.  A married couple with children and a job, car, phone, etc.  Often a branch of 50-100 actives would only have one or two couples like this.  I do understand from missionaries that served later then I did that they were starting to baptize and retain more men and complete families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>Good discussion. My comment was based on Activity as measured by my personal experience with Church records and activity in about 5 different units.  Here in the US it seems to me that Women ARE more active then men on average. The men seem more alienated to me. </p>
<p>As for Africa.  Julie has repeated this claim that Men are more active then women in Africa. In my 2 year mission in South Africa and Namibia this was really not the case.  We had entire branches of women and children with a sprinkling of men.  This pattern was consistent in tribal dominated units across SA and Namibia.  The only place where it was not true was in White wards and branches.</p>
<p>In the tribal areas we would tract with a specific goal.  A married couple with children and a job, car, phone, etc.  Often a branch of 50-100 actives would only have one or two couples like this.  I do understand from missionaries that served later then I did that they were starting to baptize and retain more men and complete families.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziff</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2541</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 08:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2541</guid>
		<description>Great question, Julie. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to even begin to answer it. I don&#039;t even have a well-formed theory about why the Church appears to appeal more to men in the US. I don&#039;t even have a beginning of an inkling of a theory about why the difference would be even greater in Africa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question, Julie. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to even begin to answer it. I don&#8217;t even have a well-formed theory about why the Church appears to appeal more to men in the US. I don&#8217;t even have a beginning of an inkling of a theory about why the difference would be even greater in Africa.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark IV</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2536</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark IV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 01:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2536</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ziff, #7&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Men just don&#039;t attend and participate nearly as much. &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You&#039;re right.  This just goes to show how difficult it is to understand what conclusions we can safely draw from data.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People get onto the records of the LDS church not only by joining it, but also by being born into it.  Our numbers are more likely to track the overall male/female population breakdown because we do a better job of tracking our members from birth. Consequently, activity rates are more revealing than the number of men and women on the rolls.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People also join churches for non-religious reasons.  I know a woman who became a Methodist because the church ran a pre-school near her work, and they offered reduced fees to members.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ziff, #7</p>
<p>
<blockquote>Men just don&#8217;t attend and participate nearly as much. </p></blockquote>
<p>You&#8217;re right.  This just goes to show how difficult it is to understand what conclusions we can safely draw from data.</p>
<p>People get onto the records of the LDS church not only by joining it, but also by being born into it.  Our numbers are more likely to track the overall male/female population breakdown because we do a better job of tracking our members from birth. Consequently, activity rates are more revealing than the number of men and women on the rolls.</p>
<p>People also join churches for non-religious reasons.  I know a woman who became a Methodist because the church ran a pre-school near her work, and they offered reduced fees to members.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie M. Smith</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2537</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie M. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 00:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2537</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve seen in several places that the Church in Africa has way, way more men than women.  I find this fascinating and I wonder how that would play in to what you&#039;ve done here--what factors in African culture(s) would make the Church even more appealing to men than to women?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen in several places that the Church in Africa has way, way more men than women.  I find this fascinating and I wonder how that would play in to what you&#8217;ve done here&#8211;what factors in African culture(s) would make the Church even more appealing to men than to women?</p>
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		<title>By: Ziff</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2534</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2534</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Eve. That&#039;s exactly what I&#039;m saying. I&#039;m not advocating that the Church try to achive a particular sex ratio. I&#039;m just saying that it looks like, given women&#039;s generally greater religiosity, the Church is more appealing to men than it is to women. I think this is worth mentioning because it flies in the face of the fact, as noted by bbell, that there are more active women than men in the Church. That&#039;s all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Eve. That&#8217;s exactly what I&#8217;m saying. I&#8217;m not advocating that the Church try to achive a particular sex ratio. I&#8217;m just saying that it looks like, given women&#8217;s generally greater religiosity, the Church is more appealing to men than it is to women. I think this is worth mentioning because it flies in the face of the fact, as noted by bbell, that there are more active women than men in the Church. That&#8217;s all.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziff</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2533</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2533</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the historical perspective, RoastedTomatoes. I agree that the data seem to be saying the same thing, but I always worry a little that a common methodological problem could influence all the surveys together. For example, people in general attend church &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=237&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;less often&lt;/a&gt; than they claim to. If women felt more pressure to overreport their religious behavior than men, this might skew the results. If these results are consistent with historical trends, though, this gives me more confidence in them.

I&#039;m not sure about whether the data Heaton was discussing were &quot;on the rolls&quot; or &quot;in the pews.&quot; My impression is that they were the latter because I recall he mentioned the Church Membership Survey. If he had just been interested in members on the rolls, I&#039;m sure he could have just looked at counts of member records.

Here&#039;s a little more data that suggests that Heaton was talking about participating members. In the 2001 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;American Religious Identification Survey&lt;/a&gt;, Mormons were found to be pretty middle of the road in being 54% women (1.17:1, Exhibit 11). Of course this is religious &lt;i&gt;identification&lt;/i&gt; and not participation. The overall woman to man ratio is 1.06:1, which is dramatically different from the figures in my second table. (Note that the 52% = 1.08:1 figure at the bottom of Exhibit 11 is for the whole adult population, not the sum of the people identifying with a particular denomination.) So men may identify with a religion nearly as often as do women. Men just don&#039;t attend and participate nearly as much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the historical perspective, RoastedTomatoes. I agree that the data seem to be saying the same thing, but I always worry a little that a common methodological problem could influence all the surveys together. For example, people in general attend church <a href="http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=237" rel="nofollow">less often</a> than they claim to. If women felt more pressure to overreport their religious behavior than men, this might skew the results. If these results are consistent with historical trends, though, this gives me more confidence in them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure about whether the data Heaton was discussing were &#8220;on the rolls&#8221; or &#8220;in the pews.&#8221; My impression is that they were the latter because I recall he mentioned the Church Membership Survey. If he had just been interested in members on the rolls, I&#8217;m sure he could have just looked at counts of member records.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a little more data that suggests that Heaton was talking about participating members. In the 2001 <a href="http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htm" rel="nofollow">American Religious Identification Survey</a>, Mormons were found to be pretty middle of the road in being 54% women (1.17:1, Exhibit 11). Of course this is religious <i>identification</i> and not participation. The overall woman to man ratio is 1.06:1, which is dramatically different from the figures in my second table. (Note that the 52% = 1.08:1 figure at the bottom of Exhibit 11 is for the whole adult population, not the sum of the people identifying with a particular denomination.) So men may identify with a religion nearly as often as do women. Men just don&#8217;t attend and participate nearly as much.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2532</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2532</guid>
		<description>Last Lemming, but shouldn&#039;t some of the most interesting and spiritually vital questions we can possibly ask as members of the Church have to do with the experiences and needs of those who are on the rolls but not in the pews? They are, arguably, the people we should be most concerned about and &lt;em&gt;most&lt;/em&gt; eager to understand. 

I don&#039;t think Ziff is arguing that a greater gender imbalance in the Church would be either positive or negative (it would likely be both); as I read him, he&#039;s arguing only that given certain gendered patterns of religious conversion and practice, we should expect the Church to exhibit greater gender imbalance, were it appealing equally to men and to women.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last Lemming, but shouldn&#8217;t some of the most interesting and spiritually vital questions we can possibly ask as members of the Church have to do with the experiences and needs of those who are on the rolls but not in the pews? They are, arguably, the people we should be most concerned about and <em>most</em> eager to understand. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Ziff is arguing that a greater gender imbalance in the Church would be either positive or negative (it would likely be both); as I read him, he&#8217;s arguing only that given certain gendered patterns of religious conversion and practice, we should expect the Church to exhibit greater gender imbalance, were it appealing equally to men and to women.</p>
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		<title>By: Last Lemming</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2531</link>
		<dc:creator>Last Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 17:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/09/25/fun-with-numbers-is-the-church-appealing-to-women/#comment-2531</guid>
		<description>If we are only talking about people on the church rolls (as opposed to in the pews), I don&#039;t see why this is even an interesting question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we are only talking about people on the church rolls (as opposed to in the pews), I don&#8217;t see why this is even an interesting question.</p>
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