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	<title>Comments on: Bored by Sex</title>
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		<title>By: More bloggernacle posts about sexuality &#171; The Visitors&#8217; Center</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-45633</link>
		<dc:creator>More bloggernacle posts about sexuality &#171; The Visitors&#8217; Center</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-45633</guid>
		<description>[...] Zelophehad&#8217;s Daughters: Bored by Sex [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Zelophehad&#8217;s Daughters: Bored by Sex [...]</p>
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		<title>By: chosha</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1305</link>
		<dc:creator>chosha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 13:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1305</guid>
		<description>&quot;Between-the-lines lesbian encounters in Jane Austen&quot;

o_O? Okay... (Actually I would have sexual encounters of any kind in Jane Austen would be pretty between-the-lines. :)

I&#039;m clearly not reading the right literature, because I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve got enough sex in mine, haha. Now the amount of sex in rap lyrics right now, on the other hand, is boring me stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Between-the-lines lesbian encounters in Jane Austen&#8221;</p>
<p>o_O? Okay&#8230; (Actually I would have sexual encounters of any kind in Jane Austen would be pretty between-the-lines. <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m clearly not reading the right literature, because I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve got enough sex in mine, haha. Now the amount of sex in rap lyrics right now, on the other hand, is boring me stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1304</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 20:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1304</guid>
		<description>Mark, Thanks for the explanation. And it&#039;s OK about the economic metaphor--the more I think about it, the more I&#039;m going to have to throw up my hands and admit that there&#039;s at least as much economics in literature as there is sex. I constantly hear people say and say myself that we &quot;buy&quot; or &quot;don&#039;t buy&quot; given claims or interpretations. Just today in my philosophy class everyone kept talking about how certain theories &quot;cash out.&quot; And of course writers like Austen and Dickens are thoroughly economic. You could probably write a whole economics dissertation just on Dickens. (But don&#039;t tell Ziff! He&#039;s supposed to be working on _Goodnight, Moon_.) 

Your story about figuring out erotic dialogue in German in the middle of the HBLL made me laugh and brought back some funny and embarrassing mission memories. In my greenie city, at a Homemaking Meeting, I was saying something or other and waving my hands around wildly in a desperate attempt to communicate when--evidently--I made an obscene gesture. All of the women laughed and laughed, but they were too embarrassed to show or tell me what bad thing I&#039;d done with my hands, so I never did figure it out. I just got a lot more nervous about using my hands to communicate after that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, Thanks for the explanation. And it&#8217;s OK about the economic metaphor&#8211;the more I think about it, the more I&#8217;m going to have to throw up my hands and admit that there&#8217;s at least as much economics in literature as there is sex. I constantly hear people say and say myself that we &#8220;buy&#8221; or &#8220;don&#8217;t buy&#8221; given claims or interpretations. Just today in my philosophy class everyone kept talking about how certain theories &#8220;cash out.&#8221; And of course writers like Austen and Dickens are thoroughly economic. You could probably write a whole economics dissertation just on Dickens. (But don&#8217;t tell Ziff! He&#8217;s supposed to be working on _Goodnight, Moon_.) </p>
<p>Your story about figuring out erotic dialogue in German in the middle of the HBLL made me laugh and brought back some funny and embarrassing mission memories. In my greenie city, at a Homemaking Meeting, I was saying something or other and waving my hands around wildly in a desperate attempt to communicate when&#8211;evidently&#8211;I made an obscene gesture. All of the women laughed and laughed, but they were too embarrassed to show or tell me what bad thing I&#8217;d done with my hands, so I never did figure it out. I just got a lot more nervous about using my hands to communicate after that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark IV</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1303</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark IV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1303</guid>
		<description>Eve, you are right, &lt;I&gt;Liebestod&lt;/I&gt; contains some exciting, overwrought, and even climactic moments.  &lt;I&gt;Tristan and Isolde&lt;/I&gt; are lovers who set the gold standard against which all other heavy breathers are to be measured.  Sorry for the econ reference. :-)

I guess I was just lucky in my literature classes.  In a Shakespeare class once, the teacher defused the issue by taking an hour and introducing us to the Bawd of Avon, where she addressed the issue of sex and naughty words in Bill&#039;s work.  She got it all over with at once, and the topic didn&#039;t get raised obsessively after that.

Probably the oddest/funniest experience I&#039;ve had occurred in the library at BYU.  I was energetically studying part 2 of &lt;I&gt;Faust&lt;/I&gt;, but my RM german wasn&#039;t good enough to get the meaning of some of the passages.  I had to use my German/English dictionary to follow the dialogue between Faust and Lilith because they were using words I hadn&#039;t learned in the MTC.  I remember the moment I finally &quot;got&quot; what was going on.  I didn&#039;t know whether to laugh or feel guilty, after all, that was the Harold B. Lee library.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eve, you are right, <i>Liebestod</i> contains some exciting, overwrought, and even climactic moments.  <i>Tristan and Isolde</i> are lovers who set the gold standard against which all other heavy breathers are to be measured.  Sorry for the econ reference. <img src='http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I guess I was just lucky in my literature classes.  In a Shakespeare class once, the teacher defused the issue by taking an hour and introducing us to the Bawd of Avon, where she addressed the issue of sex and naughty words in Bill&#8217;s work.  She got it all over with at once, and the topic didn&#8217;t get raised obsessively after that.</p>
<p>Probably the oddest/funniest experience I&#8217;ve had occurred in the library at BYU.  I was energetically studying part 2 of <i>Faust</i>, but my RM german wasn&#8217;t good enough to get the meaning of some of the passages.  I had to use my German/English dictionary to follow the dialogue between Faust and Lilith because they were using words I hadn&#8217;t learned in the MTC.  I remember the moment I finally &#8220;got&#8221; what was going on.  I didn&#8217;t know whether to laugh or feel guilty, after all, that was the Harold B. Lee library.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1302</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1302</guid>
		<description>Ziff, I&#039;m falling all over myself in self-righteous indignation to see my most holy sex thread polluted by economics. Please remove your grimy cold calculating fingers from the keyboard and run a least squares regression on _Goodnight Moon_, post haste. I cannot continue to live without knowing just how dirty &quot;Goodnight nobody. Goodnight mush&quot; is.

Kaimi, I agree that it&#039;s polite to hold the door open for the barbarians, but the danger in this family is that you&#039;ll let us all out of our cages to roam the Bloggernacle en masse, and we&#039;ll start howling at the moon and scribbling graffiti on all the lovely gates of civilization you&#039;ve so painstakingly erected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ziff, I&#8217;m falling all over myself in self-righteous indignation to see my most holy sex thread polluted by economics. Please remove your grimy cold calculating fingers from the keyboard and run a least squares regression on _Goodnight Moon_, post haste. I cannot continue to live without knowing just how dirty &#8220;Goodnight nobody. Goodnight mush&#8221; is.</p>
<p>Kaimi, I agree that it&#8217;s polite to hold the door open for the barbarians, but the danger in this family is that you&#8217;ll let us all out of our cages to roam the Bloggernacle en masse, and we&#8217;ll start howling at the moon and scribbling graffiti on all the lovely gates of civilization you&#8217;ve so painstakingly erected.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1301</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 17:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1301</guid>
		<description>Kaimi, I can definitely see how you&#039;d come to that conclusion--I didn&#039;t make myself very clear. I completely agree with you that Shakespeare&#039;s bawdiness is mild. Your comments about Shakespeare and &lt;I&gt;Lysistrata&lt;/I&gt; and s&#039;s great story about Emily Dickinson are reminding me of something I didn&#039;t adequately consider in my original post: that teaching sex in the text can be a great way to show students who think all Great Literature is remote and dull that it can be hilarious. I&#039;m thinking of Theodore Roethke&#039;s &quot;I Knew a Woman&quot; and certain of John Donne&#039;s poems my husband loves to quote laughingly at as other examples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kaimi, I can definitely see how you&#8217;d come to that conclusion&#8211;I didn&#8217;t make myself very clear. I completely agree with you that Shakespeare&#8217;s bawdiness is mild. Your comments about Shakespeare and <i>Lysistrata</i> and s&#8217;s great story about Emily Dickinson are reminding me of something I didn&#8217;t adequately consider in my original post: that teaching sex in the text can be a great way to show students who think all Great Literature is remote and dull that it can be hilarious. I&#8217;m thinking of Theodore Roethke&#8217;s &#8220;I Knew a Woman&#8221; and certain of John Donne&#8217;s poems my husband loves to quote laughingly at as other examples.</p>
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		<title>By: s</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1300</link>
		<dc:creator>s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 13:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1300</guid>
		<description>Eve, I have to deal with a little discomfort, but not too much (at my university, it has more to do with my students being uncertain about how I will react than because of my students being prudes).  I&#039;m glad I don&#039;t have to deal with too much discomfort on this subject with my students (like you did at BYU).  Your &lt;EM&gt;Lysistrata&lt;/EM&gt; comments actually remind me of a funny teaching experience.

Last semester we were doing Emily Dickinson, and we were reading a relatively ambiguous poem (of which there are many), and I had my students decide what they thought it was about (and then they had to find evidence from the poem to support their claim).  A few of the groups decided that the poem was about sex; the rest of the class laughed and looked at me to see what my reaction would be.  I let them run with it, and then I had a student who raised her hand and asked if there really could be sex in Emily Dickinson (because of 19th century conventions of womanhood, Dickinson&#039;s reclusive nature, etc).  I had them read a poem I hadn&#039;t originally assigned, and they all agreed that there&#039;s sex in Dickinson.

It ended up being a really great lesson about the assumptions we make about literature based on our incomplete knowledge about an author or culture.  While with &lt;EM&gt;Lysistrata&lt;/EM&gt;, you&#039;re dealing with assumptions about classical cultures, with Dickinson, you have to deal more with students wanting to interpret everything in her poetry based on what they know about her life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eve, I have to deal with a little discomfort, but not too much (at my university, it has more to do with my students being uncertain about how I will react than because of my students being prudes).  I&#8217;m glad I don&#8217;t have to deal with too much discomfort on this subject with my students (like you did at BYU).  Your <em>Lysistrata</em> comments actually remind me of a funny teaching experience.</p>
<p>Last semester we were doing Emily Dickinson, and we were reading a relatively ambiguous poem (of which there are many), and I had my students decide what they thought it was about (and then they had to find evidence from the poem to support their claim).  A few of the groups decided that the poem was about sex; the rest of the class laughed and looked at me to see what my reaction would be.  I let them run with it, and then I had a student who raised her hand and asked if there really could be sex in Emily Dickinson (because of 19th century conventions of womanhood, Dickinson&#8217;s reclusive nature, etc).  I had them read a poem I hadn&#8217;t originally assigned, and they all agreed that there&#8217;s sex in Dickinson.</p>
<p>It ended up being a really great lesson about the assumptions we make about literature based on our incomplete knowledge about an author or culture.  While with <em>Lysistrata</em>, you&#8217;re dealing with assumptions about classical cultures, with Dickinson, you have to deal more with students wanting to interpret everything in her poetry based on what they know about her life.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaimi</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1299</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1299</guid>
		<description>Ziff,

I see my job here as standing at the gate and holding it open for the barbarians.  

It&#039;s only polite, after all.  If I were a barbarian, I would certainly want someone holding the gate open for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ziff,</p>
<p>I see my job here as standing at the gate and holding it open for the barbarians.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s only polite, after all.  If I were a barbarian, I would certainly want someone holding the gate open for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaimi</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1298</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaimi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 09:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1298</guid>
		<description>Eve,

I appreciate your desire to keep the blog family-friendly.  I didn&#039;t mean to come across as encouraging otherwise; however, I was struck by what seemed like an incongruity between your innocuous examples and your apparent . . . what&#039;s the word I&#039;m looking for? distress? I&#039;ll just say, the amount of energy you dedicated to the issue.  It struck me that if your concern really _was_ all about the (relatively mild) bawdiness in Shakespeare, then you were making a mountain out of a molehill.  

However, given your (and Kiskilili&#039;s) elucidations, I&#039;m quite happy to revise that opinion and note that your concern is painted in somewhat broad brush strokes for decorum&#039;s sake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eve,</p>
<p>I appreciate your desire to keep the blog family-friendly.  I didn&#8217;t mean to come across as encouraging otherwise; however, I was struck by what seemed like an incongruity between your innocuous examples and your apparent . . . what&#8217;s the word I&#8217;m looking for? distress? I&#8217;ll just say, the amount of energy you dedicated to the issue.  It struck me that if your concern really _was_ all about the (relatively mild) bawdiness in Shakespeare, then you were making a mountain out of a molehill.  </p>
<p>However, given your (and Kiskilili&#8217;s) elucidations, I&#8217;m quite happy to revise that opinion and note that your concern is painted in somewhat broad brush strokes for decorum&#8217;s sake.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziff</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 05:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/02/07/bored-by-sex/#comment-1297</guid>
		<description>Eve,

I have it on good authority that you secretly &lt;I&gt;love&lt;/I&gt; least squares regressions (and maximum likelihood even better).

Kaimi,

Thanks for being the first to mention the wonderful &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.marginalrevolution.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Marginal Revolution&lt;/A&gt;. Now I can refer to it to my heart&#039;s conent without being blamed for being the first to sully this most holy blog with economics talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eve,</p>
<p>I have it on good authority that you secretly <i>love</i> least squares regressions (and maximum likelihood even better).</p>
<p>Kaimi,</p>
<p>Thanks for being the first to mention the wonderful <a HREF="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/" rel="nofollow">Marginal Revolution</a>. Now I can refer to it to my heart&#8217;s conent without being blamed for being the first to sully this most holy blog with economics talk.</p>
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