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	<title>Comments on: Confessions of a Visiting Teaching Drop-out</title>
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		<title>By: Lynnette</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-944</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Anon, that does sound like a complete nightmare.  I&#039;m thinking that this goes back to what S said in the very first comment here about the importance of seriously listening to the needs of the other person.  (Beijing&#039;s&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2866#comment-117075&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; story&lt;/A&gt; about home teachers on T&amp;S has a rather similar theme.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon, that does sound like a complete nightmare.  I&#8217;m thinking that this goes back to what S said in the very first comment here about the importance of seriously listening to the needs of the other person.  (Beijing&#8217;s<a HREF="http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2866#comment-117075" rel="nofollow"> story</a> about home teachers on T&amp;S has a rather similar theme.)</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-943</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-943</guid>
		<description>Anonymous, that may be the mother of all VTing stories, so to speak. 

Your experience illustrates a problem I&#039;ve encountered over and over at church, the idea that all of our personal answers and revelations are generalizable, and that other people who seem to have problems we&#039;ve resolved for ourselves are less developed versions of us who simply need a few of our answers to get up to snuff. (I&#039;ve lost track of the number of people who&#039;ve hastened to reveal to me the meaning of my infertility, as revealed to their sister-in-law&#039;s cousin in a faith-promoting rumor--for example, that I still need time to get used to marriage, or that God wants me to adopt, or that I simply need to decide how badly I want children. I persist in the evidently radical belief that if God has reasons for my infertility, He&#039;ll reveal them to me.) 

Although the old Missionary Guide was, to put it mildly, not my favorite reading ever, it did have one great example that&#039;s stuck with me through the years (don&#039;t pass out, Ziff ;&gt;). I can&#039;t remember the details, and my only copy is in Italian and buried in my closet with my other missionary stuff, but it was in the Resolving Concerns section, an analogy about putting your eyeglasses on someone else to make them see clearly. If someone already has the answers ready to shove at you and is convinced that because they&#039;ve worked for her they must work for you, how can you even begin to articulate your questions? I absolutely believe in personal revelation, but I&#039;ve often thought we don&#039;t adequately respect the personal nature of our answers, which come to us in our own language (Doctrine and Covenants 90:11) and, I think, tempered to our very individual circumstances and needs. I also think the personal communication we receive from God, like more general revelation for the church, is part of an ongoing dialogue, an unfolding, a conversation. Although of course our insights can help each other, ultimately we remain responsible for our own seeking and our own revelation. It&#039;s far too tempting to freeze-frame our answers and push them on others as a way to get them to stop asking uncomfortable questions. I shudder to think how glibly I&#039;ve done this at times, how I&#039;ve rushed over someone&#039;s problems, verbally yanking them toward what seems to me the obvious and easy solution. 

And as a culture we seem to feel entitled to say the strangest things about others&#039; intellectual/doctrinal/emotional issues, things we would never say about other trials. If someone struggles with her testimony or express doubt about some aspect of the church, we often rush to observe that we ourselves have never doubted and always had a testimony. By contrast, if someone said that her child had died, would  we quickly point out to her that we ourselves have never lost any children? I&#039;ve long thought it&#039;s significant that in the baptismal covenant in Mosiah 18:9, we promise first &quot;to mourn with those that mourn,&quot; and then &quot;to comfort those that stand in need of comfort.&quot; I&#039;m persuaded that the order is significant. We don&#039;t earn the right to comfort someone until we have mourned with him. It&#039;s too easy to fall into the complacent role of Job&#039;s comforters, offering an easy received wisdom that preserves our own unthinking preconceptions to those in the depths of sorrow. I think that like Christ, whose  atonement is our example, we earn both the right and the power to comfort by being willing to enter into the sorrows of others. And that requires time, an open heart, and a willingness to set aside the discomfort others&#039; sorrows may evoke in us. 

When I think of the rare people I&#039;ve met who&#039;ve offered me that open, considerate heart and who have been willing to hear my sorrows, I want to learn to be one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous, that may be the mother of all VTing stories, so to speak. </p>
<p>Your experience illustrates a problem I&#8217;ve encountered over and over at church, the idea that all of our personal answers and revelations are generalizable, and that other people who seem to have problems we&#8217;ve resolved for ourselves are less developed versions of us who simply need a few of our answers to get up to snuff. (I&#8217;ve lost track of the number of people who&#8217;ve hastened to reveal to me the meaning of my infertility, as revealed to their sister-in-law&#8217;s cousin in a faith-promoting rumor&#8211;for example, that I still need time to get used to marriage, or that God wants me to adopt, or that I simply need to decide how badly I want children. I persist in the evidently radical belief that if God has reasons for my infertility, He&#8217;ll reveal them to me.) </p>
<p>Although the old Missionary Guide was, to put it mildly, not my favorite reading ever, it did have one great example that&#8217;s stuck with me through the years (don&#8217;t pass out, Ziff ;&gt;). I can&#8217;t remember the details, and my only copy is in Italian and buried in my closet with my other missionary stuff, but it was in the Resolving Concerns section, an analogy about putting your eyeglasses on someone else to make them see clearly. If someone already has the answers ready to shove at you and is convinced that because they&#8217;ve worked for her they must work for you, how can you even begin to articulate your questions? I absolutely believe in personal revelation, but I&#8217;ve often thought we don&#8217;t adequately respect the personal nature of our answers, which come to us in our own language (Doctrine and Covenants 90:11) and, I think, tempered to our very individual circumstances and needs. I also think the personal communication we receive from God, like more general revelation for the church, is part of an ongoing dialogue, an unfolding, a conversation. Although of course our insights can help each other, ultimately we remain responsible for our own seeking and our own revelation. It&#8217;s far too tempting to freeze-frame our answers and push them on others as a way to get them to stop asking uncomfortable questions. I shudder to think how glibly I&#8217;ve done this at times, how I&#8217;ve rushed over someone&#8217;s problems, verbally yanking them toward what seems to me the obvious and easy solution. </p>
<p>And as a culture we seem to feel entitled to say the strangest things about others&#8217; intellectual/doctrinal/emotional issues, things we would never say about other trials. If someone struggles with her testimony or express doubt about some aspect of the church, we often rush to observe that we ourselves have never doubted and always had a testimony. By contrast, if someone said that her child had died, would  we quickly point out to her that we ourselves have never lost any children? I&#8217;ve long thought it&#8217;s significant that in the baptismal covenant in Mosiah 18:9, we promise first &#8220;to mourn with those that mourn,&#8221; and then &#8220;to comfort those that stand in need of comfort.&#8221; I&#8217;m persuaded that the order is significant. We don&#8217;t earn the right to comfort someone until we have mourned with him. It&#8217;s too easy to fall into the complacent role of Job&#8217;s comforters, offering an easy received wisdom that preserves our own unthinking preconceptions to those in the depths of sorrow. I think that like Christ, whose  atonement is our example, we earn both the right and the power to comfort by being willing to enter into the sorrows of others. And that requires time, an open heart, and a willingness to set aside the discomfort others&#8217; sorrows may evoke in us. </p>
<p>When I think of the rare people I&#8217;ve met who&#8217;ve offered me that open, considerate heart and who have been willing to hear my sorrows, I want to learn to be one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-942</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-942</guid>
		<description>I dropped out of visiting teaching completely after an unfortunate experience last summer. In my visiting teacher&#039;s defense, I&#039;ve pretty much stopped censoring myself--I&#039;ve told more people than have any desire to hear from me what&#039;s stupid about the church.
And I&#039;ve reaped the whirlwind, so to speak: an entire parade of people have tried to convince me, not just that the church isn&#039;t sexist, but that I personally have no problem with it, so I need to buck up and get over myself. 

This was more or less my visiting teacher&#039;s tack; she cornered me after Relief Society obviously in a mood to pick a fight (I certainly don&#039;t claim to be innocent in the situation! I&#039;ve picked several fights myself, so I probably deserved it) and explained, in essence, that she had no problem with the church, therefore neither did I. How does one counter this line of thought? I&#039;m glad other people are at peace with their church membership. I&#039;m not. I can&#039;t seriously think about the church without crying. 

In any case, she told me my problem was just that I thought I was deeper than everyone else. I left crying, we never spoke again, and I haven&#039;t seen a visiting teacher/teachee since. I think at this point the church and I are hazardous to each other&#039;s health and need to be kept apart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dropped out of visiting teaching completely after an unfortunate experience last summer. In my visiting teacher&#8217;s defense, I&#8217;ve pretty much stopped censoring myself&#8211;I&#8217;ve told more people than have any desire to hear from me what&#8217;s stupid about the church.<br />
And I&#8217;ve reaped the whirlwind, so to speak: an entire parade of people have tried to convince me, not just that the church isn&#8217;t sexist, but that I personally have no problem with it, so I need to buck up and get over myself. </p>
<p>This was more or less my visiting teacher&#8217;s tack; she cornered me after Relief Society obviously in a mood to pick a fight (I certainly don&#8217;t claim to be innocent in the situation! I&#8217;ve picked several fights myself, so I probably deserved it) and explained, in essence, that she had no problem with the church, therefore neither did I. How does one counter this line of thought? I&#8217;m glad other people are at peace with their church membership. I&#8217;m not. I can&#8217;t seriously think about the church without crying. </p>
<p>In any case, she told me my problem was just that I thought I was deeper than everyone else. I left crying, we never spoke again, and I haven&#8217;t seen a visiting teacher/teachee since. I think at this point the church and I are hazardous to each other&#8217;s health and need to be kept apart.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-941</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2006 05:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-941</guid>
		<description>Exactly Eve! I have been so ingrained to being self-reliant, I would never think to ask anyone for help. It is an unfortunate circumstance to be found in, especially when we are supposed to givers and receivers of service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly Eve! I have been so ingrained to being self-reliant, I would never think to ask anyone for help. It is an unfortunate circumstance to be found in, especially when we are supposed to givers and receivers of service.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-940</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 02:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-940</guid>
		<description>Oh, I forgot--anonymous, the discussion of LMMs I&#039;ve occasionally heard scares me too. I&#039;ve heard periodic discussions in church settings of the importance and difficulty of learning to receive, and I think we don&#039;t examine enough why some people feel so reluctant to accept help and so ashamed of needing it. I wonder if characterizing others as LM or HM feeds into that shame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I forgot&#8211;anonymous, the discussion of LMMs I&#8217;ve occasionally heard scares me too. I&#8217;ve heard periodic discussions in church settings of the importance and difficulty of learning to receive, and I think we don&#8217;t examine enough why some people feel so reluctant to accept help and so ashamed of needing it. I wonder if characterizing others as LM or HM feeds into that shame.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-939</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-939</guid>
		<description>Aspen, you have a great name. And I agree that your VT coordinator didn&#039;t handle your situation well. I&#039;ve requested changes a couple of times, but I&#039;ve always assumed my request will be kept confidential. While, as you said, it&#039;s true that I don&#039;t want to be VTed by certain people, they don&#039;t necessarily need to know that. 

As I&#039;ve thought more about why so many VTing experiences have left a bad taste in my mouth, I realize that a lot of my distaste has to do with advice, autonomy, and personal boundaries. I don&#039;t like it when near-strangers give me unsolicited advice. I don&#039;t feel they&#039;ve earned the right, and I tend to be fiercely protective of my autonomy. I bristle, partly at the assumption that they can advise me based on so little acquaintance with me and my circumstances. But it&#039;s important for me to remember that not everyone is like I am. Maybe other people who had my VTers loved being &quot;mothered&quot; and advised and craved it. The situation actually reminds me of culture clashes between Italians and American sisters I encountered on my mission. Some Italian sisters expressed caring by what some American sisters (including me!) instinctively perceived as bossiness. I had to take a deep breath at times and do some mental cultural translation--telling me what to eat means they care.

I&#039;ve occasionally thought that we need better communication among VTers and VTees about what they&#039;d like. As a VTer, I always wonder--do you want me to stay ten minutes and then get out of your way, or do you crave an hour or two of conversation? Do you want the spiritual message, or not? This stuff is all so implicit that it&#039;s hard to guess at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aspen, you have a great name. And I agree that your VT coordinator didn&#8217;t handle your situation well. I&#8217;ve requested changes a couple of times, but I&#8217;ve always assumed my request will be kept confidential. While, as you said, it&#8217;s true that I don&#8217;t want to be VTed by certain people, they don&#8217;t necessarily need to know that. </p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve thought more about why so many VTing experiences have left a bad taste in my mouth, I realize that a lot of my distaste has to do with advice, autonomy, and personal boundaries. I don&#8217;t like it when near-strangers give me unsolicited advice. I don&#8217;t feel they&#8217;ve earned the right, and I tend to be fiercely protective of my autonomy. I bristle, partly at the assumption that they can advise me based on so little acquaintance with me and my circumstances. But it&#8217;s important for me to remember that not everyone is like I am. Maybe other people who had my VTers loved being &#8220;mothered&#8221; and advised and craved it. The situation actually reminds me of culture clashes between Italians and American sisters I encountered on my mission. Some Italian sisters expressed caring by what some American sisters (including me!) instinctively perceived as bossiness. I had to take a deep breath at times and do some mental cultural translation&#8211;telling me what to eat means they care.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve occasionally thought that we need better communication among VTers and VTees about what they&#8217;d like. As a VTer, I always wonder&#8211;do you want me to stay ten minutes and then get out of your way, or do you crave an hour or two of conversation? Do you want the spiritual message, or not? This stuff is all so implicit that it&#8217;s hard to guess at.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynnette</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-938</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynnette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2006 00:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-938</guid>
		<description>Aspen, I&#039;ve encountered the same situation and wondered about similar questions.  I want out of the program altogether; I really don&#039;t want to be added to the visiting teaching loads of other sisters (especially since by refusing to do any visiting teaching of my own, I&#039;ve only increased the imbalance mentioned by The Wiz.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aspen, I&#8217;ve encountered the same situation and wondered about similar questions.  I want out of the program altogether; I really don&#8217;t want to be added to the visiting teaching loads of other sisters (especially since by refusing to do any visiting teaching of my own, I&#8217;ve only increased the imbalance mentioned by The Wiz.)</p>
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		<title>By: Aspen</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-937</link>
		<dc:creator>Aspen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-937</guid>
		<description>I have recently specifically asked to be taken off the VT rolls.  It was actually kind of difficult to do, and once it was done, I found out that instead of just removing me from the list of women to teach or be taught, the VT coordinator told the women currenlty assigned to me that I didn&#039;t want them to VT me-(which is true, I just would&#039;ve liked a less dramatic exit--as apparently hurt feelings ensued).

My reasons for not wanting to be a part of VT are similar to those already voiced, but I would add that I want those who would be spending time with me, to spend their time elswhere, with indiviuals who not only perhaps &quot;need&quot; their time more, but who would appreciate and benefit from their time more.  

also, if I&#039;m off the roll, why would that be burdening other women in RS more?  I shouldn&#039;t affect the equation becuase I shouldn&#039;t be in the equation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have recently specifically asked to be taken off the VT rolls.  It was actually kind of difficult to do, and once it was done, I found out that instead of just removing me from the list of women to teach or be taught, the VT coordinator told the women currenlty assigned to me that I didn&#8217;t want them to VT me-(which is true, I just would&#8217;ve liked a less dramatic exit&#8211;as apparently hurt feelings ensued).</p>
<p>My reasons for not wanting to be a part of VT are similar to those already voiced, but I would add that I want those who would be spending time with me, to spend their time elswhere, with indiviuals who not only perhaps &#8220;need&#8221; their time more, but who would appreciate and benefit from their time more.  </p>
<p>also, if I&#8217;m off the roll, why would that be burdening other women in RS more?  I shouldn&#8217;t affect the equation becuase I shouldn&#8217;t be in the equation.</p>
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		<title>By: Eve</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-936</link>
		<dc:creator>Eve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2006 22:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-936</guid>
		<description>A couple of months ago, I called the RS president and requested a VTing change. Although I&#039;ve done that a couple of times over the course of my VTing life, I have very mixed feelings about harrassing an RS president, who, by definition, already has so much to manage.  
Just found out today at church that I&#039;ve been assigned to a new group. I cannot express my relief! Like Lynnette, I&#039;m very introverted, and having to sustain small talk with people I find difficult is the kind of dead weight on my church life I don&#039;t even realize is crushing me until it&#039;s gone. The woman who approached me to let me know I&#039;d been assigned to her group was so kind and warm. Although I&#039;ll try to tell her, I&#039;m sure she&#039;ll never have any idea how significant not so much anything she said, but just her tone, was to me.

I could dance all over the church!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of months ago, I called the RS president and requested a VTing change. Although I&#8217;ve done that a couple of times over the course of my VTing life, I have very mixed feelings about harrassing an RS president, who, by definition, already has so much to manage.<br />
Just found out today at church that I&#8217;ve been assigned to a new group. I cannot express my relief! Like Lynnette, I&#8217;m very introverted, and having to sustain small talk with people I find difficult is the kind of dead weight on my church life I don&#8217;t even realize is crushing me until it&#8217;s gone. The woman who approached me to let me know I&#8217;d been assigned to her group was so kind and warm. Although I&#8217;ll try to tell her, I&#8217;m sure she&#8217;ll never have any idea how significant not so much anything she said, but just her tone, was to me.</p>
<p>I could dance all over the church!</p>
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		<title>By: fMhLisa</title>
		<link>http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-935</link>
		<dc:creator>fMhLisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jan 2006 05:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/12/confessions-of-a-visiting-teaching-drop-out/#comment-935</guid>
		<description>Now I am an extreem extrovert, which may explain why I really do like visiting teaching. Even in the awkward moments when someone tried to draw me into the conversation with a question they don&#039;t really want an honest answer (from me) about.  

However, good for you for giving it up.  And even better for you for not feeling real guilt about it.  

A gold star for you forehead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I am an extreem extrovert, which may explain why I really do like visiting teaching. Even in the awkward moments when someone tried to draw me into the conversation with a question they don&#8217;t really want an honest answer (from me) about.  </p>
<p>However, good for you for giving it up.  And even better for you for not feeling real guilt about it.  </p>
<p>A gold star for you forehead.</p>
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