Comments on: An Inarticulate Hunger: LDS Women and Graduate School http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/ Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:37:50 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: RoDavids http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-57656 RoDavids Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:15:27 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-57656 Eve, you are gifted writer! I appreciate what you are going through, although my only constraints to graduate school are money and occasional self-doubt (I have been out of college for several years, raising children). I am glad you made the decision to pursue graduate school and I know what it's like to have a real hunger for all things academic. Several years ago, my grandmother, a French-Canadian Catholic, made this statement to me, "I was raised to get married and have children and that's what I did!". She clearly resented her cultural and religious limitations--I'm sure it was a long-term, internal struggle. Thank you for sharing. Good luck to you! Eve, you are gifted writer! I appreciate what you are going through, although my only constraints to graduate school are money and occasional self-doubt (I have been out of college for several years, raising children). I am glad you made the decision to pursue graduate school and I know what it’s like to have a real hunger for all things academic. Several years ago, my grandmother, a French-Canadian Catholic, made this statement to me, “I was raised to get married and have children and that’s what I did!”. She clearly resented her cultural and religious limitations–I’m sure it was a long-term, internal struggle. Thank you for sharing. Good luck to you!

]]> By: A Day at Church to feel like a big man « Irresistible (Dis)Grace http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-52675 A Day at Church to feel like a big man « Irresistible (Dis)Grace Fri, 06 Mar 2009 02:43:32 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-52675 [...] the young women, beautiful daughters of God, to become educated (because education is good)…clearly, they should not be taken by worldly ideas about careers. The career of a woman of faith was in the [...] [...] the young women, beautiful daughters of God, to become educated (because education is good)…clearly, they should not be taken by worldly ideas about careers. The career of a woman of faith was in the [...]

]]> By: Tatiana http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-2417 Tatiana Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:58:00 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-2417 Ah, this is something that I never considered about the church. When I was investigating I only read about how everyone is strongly encouraged to get all the learning they possibly can, for its own sake. I loved that about the church, that it wasn't anti-intellectual like so many religions. Then when I read Brigham Young's statement that everything true is part of our religion, I was delighted and felt right at home. I can't embrace a lifestyle or culture that doesn't embrace learning, for I too (despite never having gone to grad school) hunger deeply to know. In my first ward, several of the stay at home moms that I knew had advanced degrees. I didn't realize it wasn't common in Mormon culture yet for women to do that. I hope that changes soon. I think it probably will, because it took me several years after I converted to even realize there was any unspoken or spoken cultural pressure for women to limit their education. Ah, this is something that I never considered about the church. When I was investigating I only read about how everyone is strongly encouraged to get all the learning they possibly can, for its own sake. I loved that about the church, that it wasn’t anti-intellectual like so many religions. Then when I read Brigham Young’s statement that everything true is part of our religion, I was delighted and felt right at home. I can’t embrace a lifestyle or culture that doesn’t embrace learning, for I too (despite never having gone to grad school) hunger deeply to know.

In my first ward, several of the stay at home moms that I knew had advanced degrees. I didn’t realize it wasn’t common in Mormon culture yet for women to do that. I hope that changes soon. I think it probably will, because it took me several years after I converted to even realize there was any unspoken or spoken cultural pressure for women to limit their education.

]]> By: s http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-912 s Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:28:00 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-912 I definitely think that perplexedness rather than disapproval is progress; at the very least, the former would be easier for me to deal with than the latter. I definitely think that perplexedness rather than disapproval is progress; at the very least, the former would be easier for me to deal with than the latter.

]]> By: EmilyS http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-911 EmilyS Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:06:00 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-911 S, Congrats on your engagement! I think how people view your studiousness/childlessness depends on where you are. Here in NYC, I have definitely experienced less of a disapproving vibe than in SLC. Actually, I think that there is less disapproval than...perplexedness (not a word..?) nowadays. Which I think is progress, right? Eve, I was hiking an Alp once in twilight (doesn't that seem dramatic? It was, actually...), and I was looking out over this very foreign place and wondering why I felt so much at home. I thought it must just be that I was in the mountains, but then the tiniest of breezes stirred the trees--I was surrounded by aspens, and it was like hearing home. S,
Congrats on your engagement! I think how people view your studiousness/childlessness depends on where you are. Here in NYC, I have definitely experienced less of a disapproving vibe than in SLC. Actually, I think that there is less disapproval than…perplexedness (not a word..?) nowadays. Which I think is progress, right?

Eve,
I was hiking an Alp once in twilight (doesn’t that seem dramatic? It was, actually…), and I was looking out over this very foreign place and wondering why I felt so much at home. I thought it must just be that I was in the mountains, but then the tiniest of breezes stirred the trees–I was surrounded by aspens, and it was like hearing home.

]]> By: Eve http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-910 Eve Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:04:00 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-910 EmilyS, if you're still around, I know what you mean about the mountains and the aspens. My first summer in South Dakota, I taught a lit class and we did Raymond Chandler's "What We Talk about When We Talk about Love," the opening paragraph of which describes aspens. I remember staring out at the sea of students who had grown up in what Adrienne Rich calls the plains' enormous spaces, none of whom had ever seen an aspen, and feeling such a pang of homesickness as I tried to explain the way their leaves move in the wind. Although in time I came to love the plains and miss them now, the landscape of home is written into the body. Its absence is physical. EmilyS, if you’re still around, I know what you mean about the mountains and the aspens. My first summer in South Dakota, I taught a lit class and we did Raymond Chandler’s “What We Talk about When We Talk about Love,” the opening paragraph of which describes aspens. I remember staring out at the sea of students who had grown up in what Adrienne Rich calls the plains’ enormous spaces, none of whom had ever seen an aspen, and feeling such a pang of homesickness as I tried to explain the way their leaves move in the wind. Although in time I came to love the plains and miss them now, the landscape of home is written into the body. Its absence is physical.

]]> By: Eve http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-909 Eve Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:06:00 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-909 emilys, Thanks for your enthusiastic recommendations! Don't worry, I have no doubt we'll be over at FMH lots. You're our inspiration, after all. I relate to what you say about the expectation I've sometimes encountered that marriage is the End, the big one you've been waiting for since all those temple lessons beginning in MiaMaids, so what else could you possibly want? (And like you I didn't pursue marriage very ardently--my husband showed up in my life without any effort on my part.) I got married a month before I started BYU, and the very first day of my first class, the girl sitting next to me asked me if I was married (I can't remember why--maybe we were all introducing ourselves) and then asked, "Why are you here?" On the other hand, I haven't encountered that sort of attitude nearly as much, if at all, over the past few years. For some young girls marriage seems to loom so large that they have a hard time imagining life after the ceremony. But by the time you're thirty or forty, whatever your circumstances, the Wedding doesn't seem to crowd every other desire out of life anymore. As I mentioned, a couple of my bishops have questioned the need for me to get any more education, but I've heard single women get similar questions, so I don't know that their questions had to do with my marital status or just my gender. Good luck and best wishes, S, and I do hope you don't encounter too much of the attitude you describe. emilys,

Thanks for your enthusiastic recommendations! Don’t worry, I have no doubt we’ll be over at FMH lots. You’re our inspiration, after all.

I relate to what you say about the expectation I’ve sometimes encountered that marriage is the End, the big one you’ve been waiting for since all those temple lessons beginning in MiaMaids, so what else could you possibly want? (And like you I didn’t pursue marriage very ardently–my husband showed up in my life without any effort on my part.) I got married a month before I started BYU, and the very first day of my first class, the girl sitting next to me asked me if I was married (I can’t remember why–maybe we were all introducing ourselves) and then asked, “Why are you here?”

On the other hand, I haven’t encountered that sort of attitude nearly as much, if at all, over the past few years. For some young girls marriage seems to loom so large that they have a hard time imagining life after the ceremony. But by the time you’re thirty or forty, whatever your circumstances, the Wedding doesn’t seem to crowd every other desire out of life anymore. As I mentioned, a couple of my bishops have questioned the need for me to get any more education, but I’ve heard single women get similar questions, so I don’t know that their questions had to do with my marital status or just my gender.

Good luck and best wishes, S, and I do hope you don’t encounter too much of the attitude you describe.

]]> By: s http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-908 s Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:55:00 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-908 EmilyS, It's interesting to me to hear your comments on marriage and education. I'm currently engaged, and I am slightly apprehensive how people will perceive my educational pursuits once I'm married. Even though I did internalize a certain amount of discouragement when I was younger, most of the time these days, I get positive responses from people when I tell them I'm getting a Ph.D. I've still got a couple of years left (and my fiance is moving here so that I can finish my degree), and then I plan to work as a professor. And, like I said, I'm slightly apprehensive about whether or not I'm going to start getting the now-that-you're-married-why-are-you-still-in-academia-rather-than-having-children attitude. EmilyS, It’s interesting to me to hear your comments on marriage and education. I’m currently engaged, and I am slightly apprehensive how people will perceive my educational pursuits once I’m married. Even though I did internalize a certain amount of discouragement when I was younger, most of the time these days, I get positive responses from people when I tell them I’m getting a Ph.D. I’ve still got a couple of years left (and my fiance is moving here so that I can finish my degree), and then I plan to work as a professor. And, like I said, I’m slightly apprehensive about whether or not I’m going to start getting the now-that-you’re-married-why-are-you-still-in-academia-rather-than-having-children attitude.

]]> By: EmilyS http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-907 EmilyS Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:00 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-907 Eve, Thank you for the compliment. I've been enjoying your and Lynnette's and S's comments on FMH, and I'm excited for you all to have a blog of your own--although I'll be selfish and admit to hoping it doesn't take you all too much away from us. Once of the strangest things about being a married woman in the church, for me, is that it seems that people don't expect you to want anything for yourself anymore once you've married. After all, you're MARRIED, what else can you possibly want? (Besides children, of course.) Wanting education can be tolerated in single women who, after all, have nothing else to do with their lives, but in married women, it's misguided selfishness. I've felt this especially keenly because marriage, that pinnacle of a woman's existence (besides children, of course), is not something I ever actively pursued for myself (my husband pretty much fell into my lap...), and I feel like i'm being both rewarded and punished for something I didn't...."earn?" Eve,
Thank you for the compliment. I’ve been enjoying your and Lynnette’s and S’s comments on FMH, and I’m excited for you all to have a blog of your own–although I’ll be selfish and admit to hoping it doesn’t take you all too much away from us.

Once of the strangest things about being a married woman in the church, for me, is that it seems that people don’t expect you to want anything for yourself anymore once you’ve married. After all, you’re MARRIED, what else can you possibly want? (Besides children, of course.) Wanting education can be tolerated in single women who, after all, have nothing else to do with their lives, but in married women, it’s misguided selfishness. I’ve felt this especially keenly because marriage, that pinnacle of a woman’s existence (besides children, of course), is not something I ever actively pursued for myself (my husband pretty much fell into my lap…), and I feel like i’m being both rewarded and punished for something I didn’t….”earn?”

]]> By: EmilyS http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-906 EmilyS Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:06:00 +0000 http://zelophehadsdaughters.com/2006/01/07/an-inarticulate-hunger-lds-women-and-graduate-school/#comment-906 Anonymous, You've named some very beautiful aspects of NYC. And I'm to the point now that I recognize and love many of its beauties. But have you ever had to walk down 86th street in Brooklyn ("Stayin' Alive" coolness notwithstanding) on the hot summer afternoon before garbage day and realize that you LIVE here and that there's nothing you can do about it? I don't want to sound all whiney, Utah, I-Miss-the-Mountains Mormon, but....oh how I miss the wind in the quakies. Anonymous,

You’ve named some very beautiful aspects of NYC. And I’m to the point now that I recognize and love many of its beauties. But have you ever had to walk down 86th street in Brooklyn (“Stayin’ Alive” coolness notwithstanding) on the hot summer afternoon before garbage day and realize that you LIVE here and that there’s nothing you can do about it? I don’t want to sound all whiney, Utah, I-Miss-the-Mountains Mormon, but….oh how I miss the wind in the quakies.

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